Exercise more for weight loss

[hjs]

how would I separate the gains in my fitness compared to the gains from the weight loss ?

watts per kilogram

I think you would also get faster to some extent due to being healthier, being able to breath more easily, reduction of internal resistance etc.

That would be messure both. The same fitness with less weight to move wil make your faster on the erg, but you won,t deliver more energy. In watts per kg you will be faster, but not in watts per lean kg.

Improvement in watts per lean kg messures fitness gains. (given a fixed technique)

[slwiser]

So have we ran the good Doctor Goh off... I don't see any resent posts. I got his book from Amazon and he is a great ambassador for the indoor rower especially the Concept 2. His book has some clear and excellent suggestions for the older rower (elderly or >65 YO).

[Tinus]

The concept of 'utilization of stored elastic energy'. If the muscle lengthens, energy will be stored (elastic) which is (partly) released when the muscle becomes shorter again. In this way a muscle works just like a rubber band or a spring. e.g. when running you are sort of bouncing and repetitively convert gravitational energy into kinetic energy into elastic energy and vice versa without a need to burn energy (of course you do burn energy during running but this is to overcome air resistance and elastic energy loss).

That may be the case for repetitive jumping, which seems to be the main focus of research on elastic energy, but it seems very unlikely for it to amount to much in the rowing stroke. Bouncing off the foot stretcher is hardly the way to move a boat.

Bob S.

At the finish of the drive this energy is easily transfered to the flywheel and little of this energy is lost. But at the catch it is not possible to transfer the kinetic energy of the body movement to the flywheel. The catch can be, in this way, fairly well compared with running as it shares the same type of mechanism (Sure, the significance of these type of energy losses may be much less with rowing on the erg compared to running).

Can anyone tell me HOW much faster I would be if I lost 15kg INSTANTLY ?

As an example: A 90kg rower who rows a 2km on the erg in 7 minutes at pace 30 strokes per minute. Assume his maximum body speed during recovery and drive is about 0.8 m/s.

Delivered power is 300 Watts. Kinetic energy of internal motion is almost 30 Joules. Assume 30% of this energy is lost at the catch. This means 30 times a minute a loss of 9 Watt or 1.5% loss in power. This is equivalent to 0.5% loss in speed or in this case about 2.5 seconds.

If this rower would be 15 kg lighter then 1/6 less energy would be lost or differently stated, the rower would be about 4 tenths of a second faster. This is in using the assumption of proper technique (only 30% internal kinetic energy loss at the catch). In the worst case (100% loss of kinetic energy both at catch and release) the advantage of being 15kg lighter would be about 2.5 seconds.

More importantly than the speed advantage is that this 90kg rower who looses 15kg can now compete in a different weight class.

To make things more complicated. Being heavier can also be a physiological advantage because it alters rowing style. Being heavier allows to apply more force by the legs without jumping of the seat. It also allows to apply more force by the legs without a need to apply this same high force by the arms (because part of the legs force is counteracted by inertial forces and are transferred to the handle at a later stage of the drive). I believe that this difference is not a lot important because the body can adapt to disadvantages while the physics/mechanics can not.

[Nosmo]

At the finish of the drive this energy is easily transfered to the flywheel and little of this energy is lost. But at the catch it is not possible to transfer the kinetic energy of the body movement to the flywheel. The catch can be, in this way, fairly well compared with running as it shares the same type of mechanism (Sure, the significance of these type of energy losses may be much less with rowing on the erg compared to running).

If one swings a base ball bat or golf club or jumps, then there is a "wind up" where you are pre-tensing the muscles. The momentum or the golf club or bat going backwards provides some resistance which is used to store energy in the muscles. This is to be avoided at all costs in a boat. The pressure on the bottom of the feet needs to be minimal before the catch (there can be very small pressure to slow the slide but it should not be an impulse) or it will check the boat significantly. To row well one tries to be completely relaxed on the recovery with no muscle tension at all.

On a fixed erg you can get elastic storage. While it may not hurt you, I don't think it helps very much. Storing energy helps more when there is an impulse (such as running, jumping or hitting a ball). It is just another way that to row an erg that screws up OTW technique.

So I think you are underestimating the effect of loosing weight when you assigned only 30% of the energy lost.

[Carl Watts]

Thanks all, an interesting read.

As I have only been serious since I got RowPro 4 or 5 months ago I have a long way to go. Perhaps in another 6 months time I can post the effects of more training and performance in relation to weight loss.

Realistically I'm not expecting big improvements in relation to weight loss as I have a large frame rather than someone who obviously appears "Fat". My actual waist measurement is 38inches (I wear size 36 or less jeans but NO chance of getting a taper fit over the thighs) with a 44inch chest so the fat is more evenly spread than just in the guts, but it's hiding somewhere !

[Bob S.]

I've gone cold turkey (almost) on my erg addiction since my marathon time trial a couple of weeks ago. The "almost" refers to the fact that I do a light 10' "wake up" erg piece each morning as a prelude to my daily stretching and physical therapy routine. It was no big deal to drop the other workouts, since my attention nowadays is concentrated on getting organized for my upcoming european trek which is less than two weeks off now. I'll get a lot of work done when I start that, but meanwhile it had been no hay nada exercise.

The curious thing about it and the reason I am posting on this thread is that my weight has gone down since I stopped exercising! I don't understand it and I don't feel that there has been any significant change in my eating habits, but there it is. Not a large drop, just 3-4 pounds, but it is definite, lasting for several days. I can only attribute it to some sort of nervous tension about all the uncertainties over the up-coming trip.

Bob S.

[Tinus]

The curious thing about it and the reason I am posting on this thread is that my weight has gone down since I stopped exercising! I don't understand it and I don't feel that there has been any significant change in my eating habits, but there it is. Not a large drop, just 3-4 pounds, but it is definite, lasting for several days. I can only attribute it to some sort of nervous tension about all the uncertainties over the up-coming trip.

Most probably water. A change of 3-4 pounds is large if it would be a change in fat (would be more than 10kJ) or muscle in a short time.

[Bob S.]

The curious thing about it and the reason I am posting on this thread is that my weight has gone down since I stopped exercising! I don't understand it and I don't feel that there has been any significant change in my eating habits, but there it is. Not a large drop, just 3-4 pounds, but it is definite, lasting for several days. I can only attribute it to some sort of nervous tension about all the uncertainties over the up-coming trip.

Most probably water. A change of 3-4 pounds is large if it would be a change in fat (would be more than 10kJ) or muscle in a short time.

In retrospective, the 3-4 pounds was an overestimation - 2 pounds is about right. It is unlikely to be due to dehydration. I weigh at the same time every day, i.e. just after getting up and making a loo trip and just before the first drink of the day. For several weeks it was holding at 167# with minor fluctuations from day to day - not more than a pound. About a week ago, it was apparent that it had dropped to 165# shortly after I stopped doing long erg workouts. Today it was down to 163# for no apparent special reason. I rarely sweat any more, probably because I am no longer capable of putting out that much exertion. The humidity of the room in which I use the erg is usually about 30% and I usually have the temperature in the mid 60s. Because of the dry air, there is no doubt a fairly high water loss from respiration, but it is relatively constant. A few years ago, I was thoroughly chastised by a physician for letting myself get badly dehydrated. He advised at least 3 quarts of plain water every day. Juices did not count. At first I had trouble trying to get that much down, but I got used to it after a while. I have made a habit of keeping track of how much I drink and I have been holding close to the 3 qt. recommendation, never less than 2 1/2 qts. and sometimes as much as 3 1/2 qts. I have sometimes varied from the 167# by more than a pound, but I could always attribute an excess to overindulgence the day before and a low level to a heavier than normal exercise the day before. The excess or shortage did not persist for more than a couple of days. The current low level that I am experiencing has lasted for over a week.

I had a similar experience in Boston at the CRASH-B. When I arrived at the hotel, I found that I was down a couple of pounds. I had done no exercise at all for two days. I had spent all that time driving and sitting in busses and airplanes. That was convenient since it enabled me to compete in the light weight category and pick up a second WR in only three weeks.

Again, I wonder if nervous tension has something to do with the weight loss. The weight loss on that trip lasted only 2-3 days. I was deliberately being careful about not overeating until the event was over and then I (foolishly) pigged out in style. By the time I was home, it was back to the usual 167+/-1.

Bob S.

[slwiser]

The first stage of detuning (ending of intense training) after training would be a loss of blood plasma. If this is the case you should have also seem a corresponding increase in resting heart rate. Did you check this parameter out as well? If not do so. This would be expected to occur over at least a week though, I think you case is much quicker than that.

[Bob S.]

The first stage of detuning (ending of intense training) after training would be a loss of blood plasma. If this is the case you should have also seem a corresponding increase in resting heart rate. Did you check this parameter out as well? If not do so. This would be expected to occur over at least a week though, I think you case is much quicker than that.

I hadn't heard about that effect. I rarely check my rHR, so I hadn't noticed. I'll have to remember to check it when I wake up in the morning. The recent loss did take a week or so. The earlier one, at Boston, could have a number of factors, like jetlag and a disrupted schedule. It is a three hour difference for me and it took a day or so to switch from California time to Boston time.

Bob S.

[Nosmo]

Bob, does your diet change much when you stop exercising? Many people vary the amount of food they eat whether they are exercising or not. With changes in the amount of food you may be also changing the type or timing.
If you eat a much lighter dinner when not exercising your morning weight will be lower. Also if you eat more salt when exercising you will retain more water and hence be heavier. Just something to think about.

[Bob S.]

Bob, does your diet change much when you stop exercising? Many people vary the amount of food they eat whether they are exercising or not. With changes in the amount of food you may be also changing the type or timing.
If you eat a much lighter dinner when not exercising your morning weight will be lower. Also if you eat more salt when exercising you will retain more water and hence be heavier. Just something to think about.

It probably does, although I had not been aware of it. If so, it has not been deliberate, but it could well be a subconscious cutting down.

Re salt: I avoid it as much as I can. One thing I always check on labels is the ratio of milligrams of sodium to Calories. Since the average daily adult diet is about 2200 Calories and the recommended daily intake of sodium is 2400 milligrams, it should be about 1/1. If it is much higher that, I don't buy it. One of the worst is canned soup - almost any brand. They are usually around 10/1 or even 15/1. Of course a lot of foods like fresh fruit and vegetables have very little sodium, so it allows for some consumption of the higher ratio foods, but I try to keep it down to a dull roar.

Back in my college rowing days, the coach used to pass out dextrose/salt pills before a race. I don't know whether it helped of not, but maybe it was a psychological boost. Of course you lose a lot of sodium if you do much sweating, so it probably didn't do any harm under the circumstances. In my current dry air environment, there is a lot of water loss by respiration, so there is usually little need to get additional electrolytes to make of for sweat losses.

Bob S.

[Atorrante]

I Exercise around 4 hours a day, burning some 2,000 Calories daily, or 14,000 Calories per week. That is humanly possible, and there are charts to show no cheating.

No doubt it is humanly posible, in fact it is a waste of time. You should cut in half the time and double the intensity of your training. It is also humanly posible to train a couple of hours at a apx. 1,000 cal/hour intensity.