Weight GAIN with Erg? Help!

[Deewen]

Definition: Kids - Those who were too young to have been in the service in WWII - this includes those kids who got in by lying about their ages

This reminds me of my husband's great grand mother, who said that she had to look after the kids at her nursing home, since she was the oldest member. Those "kids" were in their 70's. Too funny. This is the same woman who was mowing her lawn, which included a steep hill, into her early 90's Just remarkable.

[Deewen]

I don't remember who said it, but one of my favorite quotes has always been, "If there is such a thing as a fountain of youth it is exercise."

Amen to that, Paul!

[dacotah spurgeon]

Hello to everyone who's chimed in.

I appreciate all your input. I think some more information may be important- I have added rowing and not changed eating habits/diet (that I am aware of). Given the additional burn rate (calories out via rowing) I was assuming that I'd be losing very slowly. As one of you had pointed out, it'd be about a half pound per week. But this isn't what I have actually experienced so you see my confusion.

I do tend to go at rowing like I did running- long slow distance with some days of fast training. My longer pieces (10-18K) are at 2:27/500, and shorter rows tend around 2:20/500 (2-5K). I stay at around 160-170 BPM which is in the 80% ball park.

Anyway, I think somewhere along the line I must have been increasing caloric input, otherwise the math just does not make sense. I tend to subscribe to the calories in/calories out viewpoint, but was seeing if anyone out there has ever had this issue crop up. I have to admit I am truly a bit confused about the gains, but as I said earlier it's simply got to be on the INPUT side of things that I have made my mistake.

Someone I was speaking to recently said that I wasn't eating enough... ? I find that idea almost impossible (I eat about 1500 cal/day) in order to maintain.

So thank you, for all your support and chiming in with thoughts. I'll keep rowing regardless, as I have now become an addict!

Respectfully, and with gratitude
ds
[/quote]

[Deewen]

Someone I was speaking to recently said that I wasn't eating enough... ? I find that idea almost impossible (I eat about 1500 cal/day) in order to maintain.

1500 calories a day does sound low. I'm 5ft 4" weight about 122 pounds and eat between 1800-2000 a day. I say roughly, because I don't count my calories. But I know it's not below 1800. You're taller than me and weigh roughly 30 pounds more, so I'm a bit confused as to why you would need 300-500 fewer calories than me...?

One of the mistakes I have done in the past is cut my calories too much. It's one of the common mistakes people do in their haste to lose weight.

Good Luck. I hope you start seeing some positive changes soon.

Deborah

[michaelb]

There have been other posts over the years, primarily from women but there could be some men thrown in, that had found they gained weight modestly when they started rowing. I know we shouldn't jump to conclusions from ancedotal reports, but it comes up enough to make me wonder: are you gaining muscle mass. I stopped weight lifting close to 15 years ago, but have rowed more or less (lots of less) since then, and I think rowing helps keep some/most of that muscle. I think I look bigger and stronger than if I wasn't rowing, and had taken up running or biking instead.

So rowing may build muscle, particularly in women and particularly in the large hidden muscles in the body core. Even just a little bit of increase here could be offsetting any loss of fat. Those of here think this is a very good thing, particularly for women, so would want you to keep that up. One measure of this is: are you getting faster? You should see that over time.

You mention your rowing paces. If you can row 18k at 2:30, your 2k and 5k times should be much faster. But for weight loss and initial training, I would skip the shorter rows (since you may not be rowing them hard enough anyway). So do everything 10k and up. That will get your meters up, and at least for me if I do 10k+ 4-5 times a week the meters really add up, and that should really help with weightloss and the overall calories burned.

Good luck.

[Deewen]

A complicated issue indeed...

I have been building muscle mass very nicely. I see it primarily on my back, shoulders, arms and legs. This has happened with a steady weight loss. Having said that, I do tend to build muscle quite easily, while also losing fat - which apparently doesn't always happen at the same time, for a lot of people.

[dacotah spurgeon]

Hi there Michaelb;

Indeed, I am getting faster. I'm in the process of learning how to increase speed-mainly via increasing my strokes/min. I tend to a habit of around 22/min regardless of my time/500, but increase watts/output via pushing harder with my legs. I find it a challenge to increase my stokes but I'm working at it (obviously my body is very skilled at the "long slow distance" model of aerobic exercise! ) ; )

I think I may be building muscle mass, as you suggested. I also spoke with an RN who specializes in this kind of thing, and he suggested the same thing, and also mentioned that over time I should drop the "start up" 5 pounds.

Thank you for your thoughts and it's good to have your time-line perspective on others bringing this subject up.

With Gratitude,
ds

[mjl1261]

Just wanted to throw in two cents here as I recently lamented on this very subject. I didn't gain weight but I didn't lose either and my clothes were not fitting any better.

One poster suggested varying my workouts. After slogging through the March Madness challenge and feeling like (as one descriptive poster put it) a galley slave, I decided to try the Workout of the Day on this website. It includes a lot of interval training which I thought I would hate because I am a plodder, by and large -- I hate sprints. But I have found that they actually make the workout fly by.

And I have to admit that the intervals may be making a difference. I don't know if calories burned with intervals are different than calories burned galley-slave style but for reasons unknown (and varying the workouts is all I've changed), I suddenly seem to have dropped a few pounds. Furthermore, after two weeks of intervals, I did a galley slave 6K this morning and did a PB by 28 seconds. My splits were in the sub-2:30 range but a month ago they were in the 2:40s. And yesterday I did short intervals at a sub-2:10 pace which I never dreamed I'd see. I used to pull like a Clydesdale and only see 2:19. I still hate sprints but I was so pleased to see those splits... it really made my day.

So something seems to be working. The pounds are not melting off, but clearly I am stronger than I was two months ago and if this is how hard I have to work to lose only a few pounds a month, I'll gladly take it.

Another piece of sage advice offered by a poster was to cover the monitor and not even worry about the splits. I've done that and it's made a world of difference. I trimmed up a piece of cardboard so that I can see everything except that split time and just go with however my body feels that day rather than chase a split time day after day. If I really want to know my average splits I can just change the display when the workout is over or go to the workout summary. It really works well for me.

My next move is to find a pad for that seat! I am far from boney but 30 minutes is about my limit. I did a 10K a couple of weeks ago and the seat was the worst part!

[grams]

My daily calorie requirement is 1600. So if I row every other day for 1/2-1 hour and I eat 2 meals a day (healthy ones) I don't lose weight.

I have to take my calories down to 1200/day and row 5 days a week for at least 45 minutes. I don't really start burning off the fat until after 45 mins. I don't eat a meal before I row at about 10a, and usually don't eat much until dinner (a big salad). Juice is what I get by on. I do need protein in the salad for the muscle-building bit. And a beer at night.

I think women often have more efficient metabolisms than men, and therefore need less food. Probably something to do with child-bearing and a thicker subcutaneous fat layer.

grams

[dacotah spurgeon]

MJL1261 and Grams:

Hello, and thank you for your thoughts. MJL- I too, have started varying my workouts and have found some improvement in my times. Thus far, no weight loss, but I do believe my muscle mass is improving, and I am getting stronger. What used to be a "hard" pull/row is now just "moderate" for me. So some thing is changing! I do feel better overall, and despite not getting lighter, I am enjoying the re distribution of my body's mass. I have also found that closing my eyes and just plain not looking at the PM helps considerably, and I change units to Watts-- a unit of measure that means NOTHING to me. Figuring out what feels good is key, I certainly agree!

Grams- your insights wrt your calorie expenditure and exercise routine is valuable to me. I have met other women who have similar experience with what seems to be "efficiencies" in our bodies which allow us to really eat very little, exercise consistently, and not lose mass. I'd love to understand it on a physiological level, but have yet to find a resource for that (I've been checking around in library, web....etc). From anecdotal evidence I'd say I seem to be in similar category as you.

Despite any frustrations I have experienced, though, I am happy as a clam on my C2. In fact, I am getting ready to go down and do my first Half Marathon, to complete the challenge for this month. It'll be slow for sure, but I'll get it done.

With Gratitude,
dacotah

[Bob S.]

I have also found that closing my eyes and just plain not looking at the PM helps considerably, and I change units to Watts-- a unit of measure that means NOTHING to me.

The main value of the watts reading is that it is a direct measure of how much work is being done on the erg. To double the number of watts, it is necessary to double the amount of work put into keeping that wheel spinning for any period of time. The pace and calorie readings don't give you this direct measure. The pace is a complex inverse measure. Cutting the pace in half means an awful lot more that just doubling the work done in some time period. The calories have a controversial addition to the work done on the wheel, so it is not a direct measure. A doubling of the calorie reading does not correspond to a doubling of the work.

Still, the pace is what most people use to compare themselves to others in their category. The calorie adjustment does have some justification, but it is a one fit all deal that is going to be a bit off for most people.

Bob S.

[iain]

I have also heard anecdotal evidence of unduly reduced metabolism. My Mother was on a diet of 330KCal/day. her weight loss dropped to less than a pound a week despite doing a full time job and keeping home. I think i read a report of experiments on convicts where a fixed reduced intake resulted in decreasing weight loss,but have no reference.

In addition many on the forums have found weight loss plateauing on a diet of long rows, but all I have seen found that weight loss resumed when faster interval sessions were added. In addition, many people manage to keep losing weight at higher intakes. I remain hot for several hours after a session, there is considerable support of this continued raised metabolism after a session that has been measured 37 hours later. I guess that the lowered metabolism would reduce or eliminate this effect. In addition, with low insulin and high glucagon (i.e. "hungry hormonal status") all anabolic activity (i.e. rebuilding muscles etc.) is reduced, perhaps explaining the effect. So introducing small healthy snacks, particularly after work outs might actually increase weight loss. Not to mention that reduced anabolic activity is likely to lead to less healthy nails, skin and hair.

finally, I recently massively reduced my rowing and put on the 4kg I had lost to make light weight. I found that I could still "sink", something I started to do when I had lost the weight. That is, if i breathe out in a pool, I can lie at the bottom without moving, previously I had to swim down to avoid surfacing. Clearly the fat content of my body has increased, so I must have put on muscle, although this is not visible.

- Iain