A little discouraged

[mjl1261]

47 yo female, been rowing seven weeks. Fairly religiously, 5-6 days/week. Generally about 30K - 40K meters/week. Never rowed anything in my life before except for paddling a canoe but have always been athletic. Basketball, tennis, softball... Finished a marathon 10 years ago with plantar fasciitis in both feet and haven't run for fitness since. But I digress...

My pace is very slow by most standards in these posts. I finished my first 10K this weekend in 53:08 which was about a 2:39 pace and I go at about 21- 23 s/m. Damper is set at 4. My fastest 2K was 9:36 and I thought my heart was going to explode.

I read post after post from people just starting out who are rowing paces that I can't do even for a few pulls and I wonder what's wrong with me?! When I mix in intervals of 10-15 really hard pulls, the fastest pace I can do is 2:18 at 24-25 s/m and that's just for a few pulls.

If you really do figure MHR at 220-age then I typically work out at about 80-85% MHR and that includes the 10K this past weekend. If I slow down to what they say I should be at for weight loss, which would be about 60-70%, it seems like I'm doing nothing and it would take forever to do the distances I feel like I should be shooting for. I could sing aloud with the iPod at that pace. Hmmm. There's a thought. Maybe I should try that!

I guess the point of my post is, I'm a little disappointed with my progress. I feel like I'm stronger but I should be faster (and thinner -- zero weight loss so far! ). I'm discouraged but I'm not a quitter. I love my C2 and will stick with it till the fan falls off. I've just discovered the Workout of the Day and plan to give that a shot.

Am I expecting too much too soon? Should I push harder? Could my technique really be that bad? My posture is lousy but I try very hard to keep my back straight when I'm rowing. I have fairly thick skin if anyone out there would care to offer suggestions. I'm very competitive and I want to improve!

Thanks.

[Bob S.]

Am I expecting too much too soon? Should I push harder? Could my technique really be that bad? My posture is lousy but I try very hard to keep my back straight when I'm rowing. I have fairly thick skin if anyone out there would care to offer suggestions. I'm very competitive and I want to improve!

Thanks.

Technique can make an enormous difference and even though you read the proper technique directions carefully and are convinced that you are following them, it is difficult to spot your own errors. The best bet is to post a video of your rowing on this forum and on the UK C2 forum and ask for a critique. You could also post on Youtube and post the URL on each of the two forums. I mentioned the UK forum, since it is more active than this one.

Bob S.

[Citroen]

Am I expecting too much too soon? Should I push harder? Could my technique really be that bad? My posture is lousy but I try very hard to keep my back straight when I'm rowing. I have fairly thick skin if anyone out there would care to offer suggestions. I'm very competitive and I want to improve!

Thanks.

Yes, yes, maybe.

http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/technique_video.php gives a good explanation of technique. It's legs (70%) rather than body (10%) or arms (20%).

Since 220-age doesn't for you (it doesn't work for me either) you may want to work on "perceived level of exertion". Go half way to 2:18 and see how it feels, how tired do you feel afterwards.

Fold the monitor away, row for twenty/thirty/forty mins and then have a look to see how far you got at what avg pace and avg stroke rate (some days it can really help to avoid fixating on the numbers the monitor is displaying).

Look at what other folks in your age group get in their ranked workouts. http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/rankings.asp

Sign up for http://nonathlon.com (which tries to even out everyone to a comparable standard regardless or age, weight and gender)

[djh]

I'm a 55 year-old who just started rowing in January. I find 10k to be quite a hard grind. My preferred workouts are 5k, 6k and 30 minutes.

When I first did a distance I did it as a "cool-down" and ranked it using my on-line log, predictably coming in right at the bottom of the heap. I then aimed for quite small improvements in PB and am very slowly working my way up in the ranks.

So far, this approach has worked for me and I've avoided injury. I'm not saying it would work for everyone, but you might feel it's worth trying.

I'm unsure what will unfold when I find I'm unable to improve my PBs any further. This hasn't happened yet for any fixed distance or time.

Good luck!

[tjf0]

I agree with Doug that 10K can be quite a grind when first starting to row. I started rowing a little over a year ago and started by doing 500ms, 1ks, and 2ks with an occasional 5k. I was always shooting to hold a pace that I could comfortably do for 1K. I think I did my first 10K about 4 months into rowing and found it very tiring and boring and very hard to hold my goal pace. I backed off of 10Ks for quite awhile thinking that it was just not a good distance for me. I have since started pulling more 10Ks and they do not seem as bad.
When I first started rowing I had a woman's crew member come up to me to give me some sage advice telling me that she did not want me to get hurt on the erg . Her major emphasis was on getting your arms out over your knees before coming forward and using mainly your legs and not you arms and back on the drive. She also told me to move the damper down between 3 and 5. I had it at 8. After that mini lesson I got online to find out what what was available on the proper rowing technique. Of course concept2 has a lot of stuff and so does youtube. I also still have a lot of work to do on technique.
Good luck and hang it there since this is a great machine for fitness and weight loss.

[Ducatista]

If I slow down to what they say I should be at for weight loss, which would be about 60-70%, it seems like I'm doing nothing and it would take forever to do the distances I feel like I should be shooting for. I could sing aloud with the iPod at that pace. Hmmm. There's a thought. Maybe I should try that!

That whole weight-loss-zone business is misleading, IMO. I think the reason that's typically stated as a target is that it's a pace most people can sustain for a long time, so they'll burn more calories.

You posted in the Weight Loss & Weight Control category, so I'm assuming that's what you're after. Same here. I'm a 44 yr old woman, and I lost 24 lbs between Dec 31 and mid-March purely on junk meters (meaning comfortable—more or less—meters) and careful tracking of my caloric intake and expenditure. To give you an idea of what junk means for me: I do nearly every row, from 5K to 16K, at the same pace, currently around 2:28 but gradually dropping.

I firmly believe that for weight loss, monitoring and moderating your intake is much more important than the intensity of your workouts.

[jamesg]

MJL, suggest you try dropping the damper as low as possible. I think you'll get best results by pulling a long fast stroke, simulating a single, with light pull on the handle. When rowing we want a one-piece long quick pull with no heaving, we're not galley slaves, nor is the boat a barge. Our boats go fast, and we move with them.

Make sure your back is straight, very little leanback, quick hands away and no tangling hands and knees on the recovery, so you get to a strong position with shins vertical at the catch. On low drag the catch will have to be very quick, but that's part of the game.

The background engineering, which can't be ignored, is that Work is the product of Length and Force; but length comes cheap, while force makes us tired. The other part of the equation is that it's the legs that do the work. That's where the muscle is, and your legs are strong already.

Whatever, when on the erg you're in the right place: we can all adapt it to our own characteristics, the full extension we can use is fine for tendons and joints, not just muscle, and our body weight is of no importance because movement is horizontal.

In no time at all you'll be rowing like this lady:

http://www.ara-rowing.org/rowing-stroke

[nchasan]

MJL, suggest you try dropping the damper as low as possible. I think you'll get best results by pulling a long fast stroke, simulating a single, with light pull on the handle. When rowing we want a one-piece long quick pull with no heaving, we're not galley slaves, nor is the boat a barge. Our boats go fast, and we move with them.

Make sure your back is straight, very little leanback, quick hands away and no tangling hands and knees on the recovery, so you get to a strong position with shins vertical at the catch. On low drag the catch will have to be very quick, but that's part of the game.

The background engineering, which can't be ignored, is that Work is the product of Length and Force; but length comes cheap, while force makes us tired. The other part of the equation is that it's the legs that do the work. That's where the muscle is, and your legs are strong already.

Whatever, when on the erg you're in the right place: we can all adapt it to our own characteristics, the full extension we can use is fine for tendons and joints, not just muscle, and our body weight is of no importance because movement is horizontal.

In no time at all you'll be rowing like this lady:

http://www.ara-rowing.org/rowing-stroke

Great Post!

N

[Janey NY]

I guess the point of my post is, I'm a little disappointed with my progress. I feel like I'm stronger but I should be faster (and thinner -- zero weight loss so far! ). I'm discouraged but I'm not a quitter. I love my C2 and will stick with it till the fan falls off.

MJ, be kind to yourself, m'dear. Progress comes in many guises, and although you don't feel your numbers are comparable to others on the forum, they are still your numbers, and will only improve over time. I'm a 44 year old that started rowing last week for overall fitness and also to drop a few pounds. I am aching deliciously today after a 30 minute row followed, very bravely, by my first attempt at a rankable 2k on Sunday, and my numbers would sit very happily right beside yours. I feel about 4" taller too ... I'm not sure if that is a psychological or physiological thing, but I'm loving this.

[Nosmo]

Ignore heart rate. The 220-age is way off for a lot of people. So until you do a max heart rate test, don't use a formula. You can monitor what your heart rate is, but only to learn what heart rate feels OK, not as a target.

The key to taking care of your back is to think about the top of your pelvis rocking forward at the start of the recovery. Thinking about keeping your back straight often just makes people hyper extend the upper back while leave the pelvis back--that will just make things worse.

I don't know where Dougie is getting the 70/10/20 numbers--I think the back swing is much more then the arms--but the idea of driving with the legs is critical.

[Bob S.]

I don't know where Dougie is getting the 70/10/20 numbers--I think the back swing is much more then the arms--but the idea of driving with the legs is critical.

Nosmo,

Part of that could be just plain distance. I find that my arm pull is about double the length my shoulder movement. I just checked out seat movement as well and found that it is about the same distance as my arm pull. So my legs are making the same distance contribution as my arms, but, of course, the strength of the legs is far greater than that of the arms and that is where the emphasis should be.

Bob S.

[moodygirl]

MJL, I feel your disappointment. I am a 44 yo female and I have also been discouraged. I am also only 5 foot tall. I try not to compare my times because that just makes me depressed. But I continue to row. I have been rowing for about 13 weeks now and even though I have only lost about 5 lbs this is what I have noticed. My resting heart rate has dropped 20 bpm. My recovery heart rate time has greatly dropped. My clothes are looser. My lower legs are looking awesome! I continue to work on form and posture. I participate in the concept 2 challenges and continue to row every day when I work out and look toward my long term goals.

[mjl1261]

I just wanted to take a quick minute to thank all of you for posting here. Every one of you has given me something I can take and use right away.

Some things I've learned:

- The MHR rule of thumb isn't for everyone
- I need to cover the monitor and stop going for a record at every workout
- Form matters
- I need to start keeping a food log (even though ignorance is bliss... *sigh*)
- Mixing up the workouts is key for avoiding burnout -- I just finished the March Madness challenge, having done the same 5K "Just Row" workout pretty much every day. I loved the galley slave analogy; that's often exactly what it felt like.

Again, thanks to all of you, technicians and cheerleaders alike! I'm grateful for your taking the time to post.

[djh]

A lot people say they watch TV and movies while they row. But I've never seen a mention of "Ben Hur"

Ramming speed!

[grams]

Here are my tips: put on your favorite music, put down the monitor, and look forward to your erg time as your special meditative alpha-state problem-solving time.

Drag factor at 100-125, 20 strokes per minute, 10 meters/stroke. Higher rates/resistance can be harder to maintain over time. Keep your abs tight.

Heart-rate: To find your real max heart rate; using a heart rate monitor, row for a while until you are thoroughly warmed up. Then keep ramping up your exertion until you reach your anerobic limit. When you get to the place where you absolutely cannot maintain the effort for longer than 10 seconds and pretty much fall off the machine, remember that heart rate. Its your max. Using the number, work backwards to find your personal effort percentages.

My max at 65 yo was 174.

My max caloric intake should be 1600/day. I had to take down to 1200/day to lose weight. Gotta love those salads. I have lots of salad recipes.

Sign up for the Nonathlon. There is always another target to shoot for there.

Have fun-thats the key to it all.

grams