Recommendations for a cheap Windows tablet for RowPro?

[slnm]

Hi,

I stopped using RowPro some time ago because I only have Macs and, even with Parallels, I could not get RowPro to work reliably. I don't think the problem is with RowPro but rather with the fact that I've got Bootcamp and Parallels running together. I'd love to see a Mac version and, yes, I have been following the recent discussions of a maybe hopefully real soon release of a native Mac version of RowPro. If there's a cheap Windows tablet for around $150 that is powerful enough to drive the display and let me row online I'll buy one of those.

Is anyone using a Windows tablet that you're happy with?

Thanks.

Sol

[Bob S.]

Nothing short of a desktop seems to have a graphics display that is good enough and that does not apply to all-in-ones - except for one designed for high level games and it is in the order of couple of thousand bucks.

Bob S.

[jackarabit]

Think you're repeating the Kiwi line there, Bob. My old Compaq laptop was delivering 39 fps refresh and did just so so on the RP river. Got a garden variety Dell business/home combo recently with integrated Intel graphics. FPS now around 132 and I can see Max Schmidt bend his wrists when feathering and setting the sticks. So yeh, something old school tower with a grfx card or a nvidea with dedicated RAM in a laptop is probably best, but the idea that the current run of Intel I5 and 7 processors can't get everything out of the graphics that RP put in is laughable. Maybe the shortfall comes with all lanes occupied? Carl never really says does he? Jack

[Bob S.]

Think you're repeating the Kiwi line there, Bob.

That and also advice that I got from others. I was quite attracted to a couple of the relatively new all-in-one desktops, but was warned that their graphic casds were substandard and the same for all laptops. There are technical terms for the two different kinds of graphics cards, but I don't remember them. As I mentioned I ran across one all-in-one that did have the superior card, but the price was far out of line. I could have opted for a cheap, standard PC with a proper card, as Carl suggested, but it wasn't the ideal fit for the physical setup I had that an all-in-one would have been. I didn't really use RP all that much, so when Windows XP was dropped, I just gave up RP entirely. I had been having continual problems with it and it was not worth the expense of all the upgrades that I would have needed.

It has been about 10 years since I first learned about RP, and the Mac version was already "in the works" that long ago. It is hard to believe that it will ever be anything but vaporware.

Bob S.

[Carl Watts]

I would be interested in anyone posting a specific model of tablet that can handle the RowPro graphics.

You have to remember there is THREE graphics modes, the old Yellow boats on the blue background, just a blue water and then the full live water mode which for some reason is very graphics intensive.

It took me three desktop graphics cards before I could get the full high quality graphics modes and decent frame rates above 60 fps. I thought that any old graphics card would eat it, well it doesn't.It was HD-4350>HD-6450>HD-6670. I was limited to Low Profile, single slot only cards so it was very limiting. Its pretty easy to choose one you just go to the video card benchmarking website and your card needs a score of over 1000 or you will need to start compromising on the quality. Not too difficult if you have dual slot SFF business desktop PC or standard tower. We are talking full HD screen or monitor here not the old 800x600 desktop resolution.

As stated before you need no CPU grunt so the Tablet CPU is up to the job but I suspect the graphics capability is not up to it or is only good for relatively low frame rates.

If anyone tries a tablet and is successful then post the spec of it and the frame rates in the high quality video mode. Ultimately this is the way of the future as far as a "Monitor" for the Concept 2 rower is concerned. Obviously no problem at all replicating what you already have on a PM5 on a tablet, but the graphics is still limited.

By the way Windows XP is still getting support and you don't need support for it anyway with the older version of RowPro. You will be able to use it for as long as your hardware works. Windows XP still works on newer PC's and my office PC is a Dual boot Windows XP/Windows 8.1 on Dual SSD's and its quite useful for running older incompatible Windows programs.

Don't understand why people struggle with PC hardware, I have four active PC's running in the house and three spares. Companies over here are now throwing dual core PC's in the bin or selling them for $1 reserve.

[slnm]

If I don't care about fancy graphics and am happy to use the lowest resolution graphics mode in RowPro would something like this, for $110, work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Computer-P ... 3a9964cd71

The price is nuts. I can barely get a Windows license for $110.

Sol

[jackarabit]

Dell I7547-4020slv w/ 8 gig RAM, Intel HD4400 or 4600 grfx no dedicated RAM. 679USD. Running live water at 110-132 fps. Vertical sync is toggled off. Does 60fps with the vertical on. Of course this isn't a tablet with a busted screen for a hundred bucks and not a 1500-2000$ game machine either. YMMV. Jack

[slnm]

I'm not jumping at the thought of buying a $679 computer since I don't use Windows. That's why I may just take my chances with the $110 old PC. I only care about RowPro's gathering and reporting of metrics and online rowing. If there were an ASCII mode that showed my boat with ***** and other boats with other ASCII characters I could live with that.

[blevac]

I may be a little late on this post but I purchased RowPro last week and I am running it on my Asus T100A tablet hybrid. It's a Windows 8.1 machine and so far I haven't had any issues with it. It's running well and doesn't seem to have any issues rendering the graphics. Anyone considering this remember to get a full windows tablet. I don't think you would be able to load RP on an RT tablet.

[jester747]

I use a first generation Microsoft Surface Pro tablet (not the RT one) and RP works fine for me too. It'd be neat if I could find/make a holder to have the screen in front of me, though. Above or below the PM5.

[blevac]

It'd be neat if I could find/make a holder to have the screen in front of me, though. Above or below the PM5.

I use the iphone holder available on the Concept website. It was inexpensive and came quickly. You need to find something as a wedge to hold a tablet in place firmly because it's taller. I used the spare foam cutouts from my seat cushion and it works fine with my Asus.

[speedy]

Hi,

I stopped using RowPro some time ago because I only have Macs and, even with Parallels, I could not get RowPro to work reliably. I don't think the problem is with RowPro but rather with the fact that I've got Bootcamp and Parallels running together. I'd love to see a Mac version and, yes, I have been following the recent discussions of a maybe hopefully real soon release of a native Mac version of RowPro. If there's a cheap Windows tablet for around $150 that is powerful enough to drive the display and let me row online I'll buy one of those.

Is anyone using a Windows tablet that you're happy with?

Thanks.

Sol

Sorry to tell you can't get anything decent at $150. Instead I say save $150 a month or week or whatever you can handle and then get something for $1000. Anything less isn't worth it.

[blevac]

Hi,

I stopped using RowPro some time ago because I only have Macs and, even with Parallels, I could not get RowPro to work reliably. I don't think the problem is with RowPro but rather with the fact that I've got Bootcamp and Parallels running together. I'd love to see a Mac version and, yes, I have been following the recent discussions of a maybe hopefully real soon release of a native Mac version of RowPro. If there's a cheap Windows tablet for around $150 that is powerful enough to drive the display and let me row online I'll buy one of those.

Is anyone using a Windows tablet that you're happy with?

Thanks.

Sol

Sorry to tell you can't get anything decent at $150. Instead I say save $150 a month or week or whatever you can handle and then get something for $1000. Anything less isn't worth it.

I disagree entirely with this post, spending $1000 on a tablet for RowPro is silly (unless you plan to use it for other purposes). I am using a $250 Asus T100 and it runs Rowpro without any problems. The most common issues with RowPro are likely graphic card related. The Asus T100 (and many inexpensive Windows 8.1 tablets on the market) have a basic Intel HD Graphics card with 32MB of dedicated video memory. That is the minimum RowPro recommends and it works without an issue. In many cases you can also increase the video memory allocation in your BIOS settings. There are also tablets on the market with graphics that have there own dedicated memory of 2GB or more that can run DirectX and OpenGL both of which are supported by RowPro. Telling people they need to spend $1000 for a tablet to support RowPro is pretty uninformed in my opinion.

[speedy]

Okay, let me clarify. You will need to spend $1000 for something decent. I didn't consider the tablets as well as the more affordable ones, that part is true. I never deal with those for my focus is primarily business users that need their computers to respond instantly. Sorry but a $250 tablet or anything less than $1000 isn't going to do it, just won't. But in terms of this software that is a different story. I will try to be more specific next time.

But again I didn't consider the more affordable Acers and what not, I forgot about them. The last time I dealt with an Acer I had to ship it for warranty repair and they had it for a month. That left a bad taste in my mouth. My view of decent will differ from another s view. I get it; I will think about that next time.

[blevac]

Actually I use use my Asus (not Acer) T100 for business too. The small size is great on a plane or train. I even run Autocad on it (but not complex models). You are right though, I could not use it as a primary PC for work but it's a great support machine and believe it or not running Windows 8.1 it runs as a synced backup to my main PC. I switch between the 2 all the time.

For RowPro it works pretty well. I've run a couple of tests and while OpenGL works fine I find I get a better frame rate using Direct X. I have it set up for the highest detail possible (Live Water), with anti-aliasing set to smooth and I get about 50 - 60 fps with 4 boats. At 8 boats it does drop some and can skip once in a while. Depending on the race I have seen it go as low as 24 fps with 8 boats. I may increase the video memory allocation in BIOS and see if that improves performance. I'll post the results if I get a chance to do that. One thing to note, if anyone decides to go the tablet route don't forget to pick up a cable. Most tables use the small format USB connector (OTG). I picked one up off of Amazon for about $10.

Edit: It turns out you cannot increase the dedicated video memory on a Windows 8 tablet. If you are considering getting a tablet be sure you have at least 32MB of dedicated memory (right click on the desktop > screen resolution > advanced settings). 32MB works well for me and I think most tablets will have at least this much.