Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Topics relating to online racing and training with 3rd party software.
HornetMaX
2k Poster
Posts: 464
Joined: September 14th, 2021, 5:41 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by HornetMaX » January 12th, 2024, 10:24 am

gvcormac wrote:
January 12th, 2024, 9:58 am
HornetMaX wrote:
January 12th, 2024, 9:36 am
For me (and others, it seems) it's not the "engine", more like the "tires" (sticking to your car analogy).
Module (H9) works, it's just the straps that are failing (and, surprisingly, the Pro strap sooner than the less expensive Soft strap).

Then yes, if 1 polar strap/year costs as much as 1 Coospo H808S (assuming it works well and lasts 1 year at least), then one could look into doing just that (not great for the planet but less hassle and financially you'll be probably even if not better off).
You keep repeating without support the proposition that the Coospo is likely to last only a year or two.
No, I'm saying that if the Coospo lasts at least 1 year then it seems to be already a better proposition than the Polar.
If it lasts even more, well then it would be a no brainer.

However, figuring out how much something lasts is hard: on the web you can find plenty of reports of people trashing a Polar/Garmng/Coospo (pick one) and going to a Coospo/Polar/Garmin (pick one, different) and be very happy after.

I've never owned a Coospo (or a Garmin) so I cannot even judge on limited experience (which, by the way, is what we both do on the Polars).
1973, 5'8" (173cm), LW, started rowing Sep 2021 (after 10 years of being a couch potato), c2 log

RowErg PBs: Image

HornetMaX
2k Poster
Posts: 464
Joined: September 14th, 2021, 5:41 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by HornetMaX » January 18th, 2024, 7:20 am

In the last sessions I alternated between my old Pro strap and a brand new Pro strap and yeah, the random issues (HR stuck low at beginning of a session, small unexpected drops of HR for a few seconds, HR a bit too flat for short periods etc) happen only with my old Pro strap.
Still a problem though, as that strap lasted only 8-9 months before showing issues.
1973, 5'8" (173cm), LW, started rowing Sep 2021 (after 10 years of being a couch potato), c2 log

RowErg PBs: Image

gvcormac
5k Poster
Posts: 524
Joined: April 20th, 2022, 10:27 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by gvcormac » January 18th, 2024, 9:38 am

HornetMaX wrote:
January 18th, 2024, 7:20 am
In the last sessions I alternated between my old Pro strap and a brand new Pro strap and yeah, the random issues (HR stuck low at beginning of a session, small unexpected drops of HR for a few seconds, HR a bit too flat for short periods etc) happen only with my old Pro strap.
Still a problem though, as that strap lasted only 8-9 months before showing issues.
What receiver are you using? I'm beginning to wonder if my PM5 sometimes gets confused. I'm going to start a series of experiments in which I connect to the PM5 and my watch to see if their readings fail simultaneously. The H9 can connect to only one Bluetooth, but it can connect to ANT+ and Bluetooth simultaneously. So I can use ANT+ for the rower, and Bluetooth for the watch.

In previous experiments, I connected the H9 to my watch with Bluetooth, and to an old FT2 (5hkz) wrist receiver, and the readings went bonkers simultaneously.

Yesterday, I got bogus low readings on my PM5 for three heart monitors (H9, Coospo, Garmin) that I connected with connect/disconnect without restarting the PM5. ErgData was connected. After powering off and restarting the PM5, they all worked. Reconnected ErgData and they still all worked.

HornetMaX
2k Poster
Posts: 464
Joined: September 14th, 2021, 5:41 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by HornetMaX » January 18th, 2024, 9:54 am

gvcormac wrote:
January 18th, 2024, 9:38 am
What receiver are you using? I'm beginning to wonder if my PM5 sometimes gets confused. I'm going to start a series of experiments in which I connect to the PM5 and my watch to see if their readings fail simultaneously. The H9 can connect to only one Bluetooth, but it can connect to ANT+ and Bluetooth simultaneously. So I can use ANT+ for the rower, and Bluetooth for the watch.

In previous experiments, I connected the H9 to my watch with Bluetooth, and to an old FT2 (5hkz) wrist receiver, and the readings went bonkers simultaneously.

Yesterday, I got bogus low readings on my PM5 for three heart monitors (H9, Coospo, Garmin) that I connected with connect/disconnect without restarting the PM5. ErgData was connected. After powering off and restarting the PM5, they all worked. Reconnected ErgData and they still all worked.
I always always always connect in the same way:
  1. Switch PM5 on.
  2. Connect HRM (H9) to PM5. Llong time ago I used BT, then switched to ANT, now I'm back to BT (mostly because on some occasions the PM5 can't see the ANT connection immediately but if you go one screen back and press again on "Connect HRM" then both the BT and ANT connections appear).
  3. Once HRM connected to PM5, start ErgZone (or ErgData) and connect it to the PM5 prior to sending the workout from the app the the PM5.
I don't connect anything else to the HRM (at the moment I've even switched off the ANT connection in the H9, as I'm using BT only).

If at any point something goes wrong (e.g. on occasions it happenes that ErgData says it has sent the workout to the PM5 but the PM5 is still waiting for it, sitting in its "Connect" screen instead of being ready in its workout screen), I just restart from scratch (PM5 off, back to step 1).
1973, 5'8" (173cm), LW, started rowing Sep 2021 (after 10 years of being a couch potato), c2 log

RowErg PBs: Image

gvcormac
5k Poster
Posts: 524
Joined: April 20th, 2022, 10:27 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by gvcormac » January 18th, 2024, 10:16 am

HornetMaX wrote:
January 18th, 2024, 9:54 am
gvcormac wrote:
January 18th, 2024, 9:38 am
What receiver are you using? I'm beginning to wonder if my PM5 sometimes gets confused. I'm going to start a series of experiments in which I connect to the PM5 and my watch to see if their readings fail simultaneously. The H9 can connect to only one Bluetooth, but it can connect to ANT+ and Bluetooth simultaneously. So I can use ANT+ for the rower, and Bluetooth for the watch.

In previous experiments, I connected the H9 to my watch with Bluetooth, and to an old FT2 (5hkz) wrist receiver, and the readings went bonkers simultaneously.

Yesterday, I got bogus low readings on my PM5 for three heart monitors (H9, Coospo, Garmin) that I connected with connect/disconnect without restarting the PM5. ErgData was connected. After powering off and restarting the PM5, they all worked. Reconnected ErgData and they still all worked.
I always always always connect in the same way:
  1. Switch PM5 on.
  2. Connect HRM (H9) to PM5. Llong time ago I used BT, then switched to ANT, now I'm back to BT (mostly because on some occasions the PM5 can't see the ANT connection immediately but if you go one screen back and press again on "Connect HRM" then both the BT and ANT connections appear).
  3. Once HRM connected to PM5, start ErgZone (or ErgData) and connect it to the PM5 prior to sending the workout from the app the the PM5.
I don't connect anything else to the HRM (at the moment I've even switched off the ANT connection in the H9, as I'm using BT only).

If at any point something goes wrong (e.g. on occasions it happenes that ErgData says it has sent the workout to the PM5 but the PM5 is still waiting for it, sitting in its "Connect" screen instead of being ready in its workout screen), I just restart from scratch (PM5 off, back to step 1).
I do something similar. It doesn't appear to matter whether I connect HRM before or after ErgData. I don't normally connect the HRM to anything other than the PM5, and I normally do that through Bluetooth, not ANT+.

Generally, the HRM works but sometimes it drops to a preposterously low level mid-workout. It was on one of those occasions that I tried switching bluetooth HRMs and pulling hard for a minute or so. In each case, the HRM connected and gave a reading, which did not change in response to my effort. Then I powered off the PM5 by hitting "menu" four times. After that, all of the HRMs worked. Of course, powering off had the effect of dropping the ErgData connection.

It appears this is unrelated to my outdoor problems with the H9, which may be related to nearby (~1km) 230kv power lines.

gvcormac
5k Poster
Posts: 524
Joined: April 20th, 2022, 10:27 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by gvcormac » January 18th, 2024, 10:29 am

Here's an example based on a 10km row I did recently.

First 50 seconds normal:

Time (seconds) Distance (meters) Pace (seconds) Watts Cal/Hr Stroke Rate Heart Rate
3.4 4.2 399.2 6 318 68
4.7 6.3 399.2 6 318 69
6.8 10.5 257.6 20 370 29 70
8.8 15.5 205.7 40 438 29 71
10.9 20.8 192 49 470 29 72
12.9 26.4 181.8 58 500 30 73
14.9 32.1 176.2 64 520 30 74
16.9 38 173.8 67 529 30 74
19 44 173.8 67 529 30 75
21 49.8 174.8 66 525 29 76
23 55.6 174.2 66 527 30 76
25 61.3 174.2 66 527 30 77
32.5 77.9 171.2 70 540 31 77
34.4 82.4 217 34 417 31 77
36.4 87.6 194.1 48 464 30 79
38.4 92.9 186 54 487 30 79
40.3 98.4 179.7 60 507 31 79
42.3 103.9 177.4 63 515 31 80
44.2 109.5 177.4 63 515 31 80
46.1 114.9 173.5 67 530 32 80
48 120.4 173.5 67 530 32 79
49.9 126.1 171.8 69 537 31 79

After about 30 minutes:

2350.7 8431.7 131 156 835 33 136
2352.5 8438.8 131 156 835 33 132
2354.3 8445.9 131.2 155 833 32 132
2356.2 8453.1 131.2 155 833 32 132
2358.1 8460.1 131 156 835 33 132
2359.9 8467.2 131.1 155 834 33 132
2361.8 8474.3 131.1 155 834 33 130
2363.6 8481.3 131.2 155 833 32 129
2365.4 8488.4 131.2 155 833 32 129
2367.3 8495.4 130.4 158 843 33 129
2369.1 8502.5 130.3 158 844 33 129
2370.9 8509.5 130.3 158 844 33 129
2372.8 8516.6 132.2 151 821 32 127
2374.7 8523.8 131.2 155 833 32 125
2376.5 8530.9 130.6 157 840 33 125
2378.3 8537.7 131.8 153 826 33 123
2380.1 8544.5 132.2 151 821 34 123
2382 8551.4 132.2 151 821 34 123
2383.8 8558.2 133.9 146 801 33 120
2385.5 8564.7 133.9 146 801 33 112
2387.2 8571.1 133.8 146 802 35 112
2389 8577.7 133.7 146 804 35 108
2390.7 8584 133.8 146 802 36 108
2392.4 8590.5 134.4 144 796 35 108
2394.1 8597 133.7 146 804 34 108
2395.9 8603.8 133.7 146 804 34 108
2397.7 8610.3 133.7 146 804 34 108
2399.5 8616.9 135.1 142 788 34 102
2401.3 8623.7 133.8 146 802 33 102
2403.1 8630.7 132.5 150 817 33 102
2405 8638 132.5 150 817 33 97
2406.9 8645 130.8 156 838 33 97
2408.7 8652.2 130.8 156 838 33 97
2410.6 8659.1 133.2 148 809 33 97
2412.4 8666 134.3 144 797 32 96
2414.2 8672.8 134.3 144 797 32 96
2416 8679.3 134.8 143 791 33 96

At end:

2710.4 9802.2 128.1 167 873 34 61
2712.2 9809.2 127.6 168 879 34 61
2713.9 9816.2 128.7 164 865 33 61
2715.7 9823 131.4 154 830 34 61
2717.5 9829.8 131.4 154 830 34 60
2717.5 9829.8 131.4 154 830 34 60
2719.4 9836.9 132.1 152 822 33 60
2721.2 9844.3 126.5 173 895 32 60
2723 9851.5 127.7 168 878 33 60
2724.9 9858.6 128.8 164 863 32 60
2726.7 9866 127.6 168 879 32 60
2728.6 9873.2 127.6 168 879 32 60
2730.4 9880.7 125.9 175 903 32 60
2732.3 9888 126.8 172 890 33 60
2734.1 9895.3 126.7 172 892 33 60
2736 9902.6 126.5 173 895 33 62
2737.8 9909.8 126.5 173 895 33 65
2739.7 9917.3 124.7 180 921 32 66
2741.5 9924.6 124.5 181 924 33 66
2743.3 9931.9 124.5 181 924 33 66
2745.1 9939.1 124.5 181 924 33 66
2746.9 9946.3 125.6 177 907 33 67
2748.7 9953.7 125.7 176 906 32 67
2750.6 9961 125.7 176 906 32 71
2752.4 9968.4 125.1 179 915 33 71
2754.2 9975.7 124.3 182 927 33 72
2756 9983.1 123.3 187 942 33 72
2757.9 9990.6 123.3 187 942 33 70
2759.7 9997.8 124.9 180 918 33 68
2761.5 10004.9 126.4 173 896 34 68

HornetMaX
2k Poster
Posts: 464
Joined: September 14th, 2021, 5:41 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by HornetMaX » January 18th, 2024, 10:33 am

gvcormac wrote:
January 18th, 2024, 10:16 am
It appears this is unrelated to my outdoor problems with the H9, which may be related to nearby (~1km) 230kv power lines.
Interesting. Your other HRMs don't have the same problem outdoor ? That would definitely count as a pro versus the H9.
gvcormac wrote:
January 18th, 2024, 10:29 am
Here's an example based on a 10km row I did recently.
Wow, that's massive. Basically it was reporting 60-70 bpm when it should have been more around 130-140 ?

In my case it's more subtle during the sessions (e.g. dropping from 160bpm to 150bpm for 1015 seconds for no good reason).
A bit more drastic at sessions start (where it may stay stuck at 80bpm when it's clear that this is wrong and after some time it quickly rises to 120).

Anyway, in my case the strap seems to be the problem: new strap, problem gone.
1973, 5'8" (173cm), LW, started rowing Sep 2021 (after 10 years of being a couch potato), c2 log

RowErg PBs: Image

gvcormac
5k Poster
Posts: 524
Joined: April 20th, 2022, 10:27 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by gvcormac » January 18th, 2024, 11:31 am

HornetMaX wrote:
January 18th, 2024, 10:33 am
gvcormac wrote:
January 18th, 2024, 10:16 am
It appears this is unrelated to my outdoor problems with the H9, which may be related to nearby (~1km) 230kv power lines.
Interesting. Your other HRMs don't have the same problem outdoor ? That would definitely count as a pro versus the H9.
gvcormac wrote:
January 18th, 2024, 10:29 am
Here's an example based on a 10km row I did recently.
Wow, that's massive. Basically it was reporting 60-70 bpm when it should have been more around 130-140 ?

In my case it's more subtle during the sessions (e.g. dropping from 160bpm to 150bpm for 1015 seconds for no good reason).
A bit more drastic at sessions start (where it may stay stuck at 80bpm when it's clear that this is wrong and after some time it quickly rises to 120).

Anyway, in my case the strap seems to be the problem: new strap, problem gone.
1. Only the H9 so far. But I only got the other monitors in November, so I haven't done serious outdoor testing. I have done a cursory test in which I wore both the H9 and the Coospo, and the H9 gave preposterous readings and the Coospo sensible. Outdoors I see two kinds of failure for the H9: stuck on or about 60, and stuck on or about 180.

2. Yes, I would've expected HR of 140+ at the end. In fact the apparent reading dropped into the 40's for a bit, which is less than my resting HR.

p_b82
5k Poster
Posts: 522
Joined: August 8th, 2022, 1:24 pm
Location: South Somerset, UK

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by p_b82 » January 18th, 2024, 1:56 pm

Random question maybe - what is the behaviour if you unplug your H9 midway through a row.

does it slowly drop down in the same way or read zero?

I do my connecting order slightly differently after I had one occurrence of a drop out & then it mucked up a TT's dataset some-how.

I pop my belt on, and connect the H10.
Turn on BT on my phone
Wake up PM5 - I connected/saved the HRM via ANT+
Connect to ergdata (or ergzone)
I then see it connect and the HRM turn red.
Then I put my session in and start.

It's hard to know whether it's the PM5 that's losing the signal, or the HRM not sending it properly - either way frustrating all the same for you!
M 6'4 born:'82
PB's
'23: 6k=25:23.5, HM=1:36:08.0, 30'=7,077m, 60'=13,702m
'24: 500m=1:37.7, 2k=7:44.80, 5k=20:42.9, 10k=42:13.1, FM=3:18:35.4
Logbook

gvcormac
5k Poster
Posts: 524
Joined: April 20th, 2022, 10:27 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by gvcormac » January 18th, 2024, 2:43 pm

p_b82 wrote:
January 18th, 2024, 1:56 pm
Random question maybe - what is the behaviour if you unplug your H9 midway through a row.

does it slowly drop down in the same way or read zero?

I do my connecting order slightly differently after I had one occurrence of a drop out & then it mucked up a TT's dataset some-how.

I pop my belt on, and connect the H10.
Turn on BT on my phone
Wake up PM5 - I connected/saved the HRM via ANT+
Connect to ergdata (or ergzone)
I then see it connect and the HRM turn red.
Then I put my session in and start.

It's hard to know whether it's the PM5 that's losing the signal, or the HRM not sending it properly - either way frustrating all the same for you!
Good question. The little heart logo disappears in a second or two, and the stroke rate freezes for a few more seconds, then blank on the display. When I reconnected it, back to normal.

Here's the relevant fragment of the log:

22 37.9 126.7 143.6 118 706 39 101
23 44.5 143.8 143.6 118 706 39 102
24 46.3 149.2 194.8 47 462 9 102 <<== unsnapped about here
25 48 155 151.4 101 647 34 102
26 49.7 160.8 146.5 111 683 36 102
27 51.4 166.8 143.6 118 706 35 102
28 53.1 172.8 143.6 118 706 35 102
29 54.9 179 143.4 119 708 34 102
30 56.6 185.1 142.5 121 716 34 102
31 58.4 191.2 141.6 123 724 35
32 60.2 197.5 144.9 115 695 33
33 67.6 214.6 272.6 17 359 58 84 <<== resnapped
34 69.5 219 219.2 33 414 31 85
35 71.3 224.1 219.2 33 414 31 89
36 73.1 229.5 165.2 78 567 34 91
37 74.9 235.2 158.4 88 603 33 95
38 76.7 240.9 154.4 95 627 34 96
39 78.4 246.8 152.3 99 640 34 96
40 80.2 252.7 148.8 106 665 34 97
41 81.9 258.6 147.5 109 675 34 97
42 83.6 264.5 145.5 114 691 35 97
43 85.3 270.6 145.5 114 691 35 98

jakabasej7

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by jakabasej7 » May 7th, 2024, 5:50 am

gvcormac wrote:
January 8th, 2024, 10:32 am
I changed batteries several times in an effort to correct H9 issues. In addition to the preposterous readings which occurred independent of battery charge, it would simply fail to connect (first bluetooth; later ANT+) when the batteries were low.

At one point I convinced myself that the H9 went through batteries in a couple of weeks if I left it paired with my smart watch, even when unsnapped from the belt.

Maybe this was just an illusion.
The phenomenon you described, where the H9 seemingly depleted batteries at an accelerated rate when paired with your smartwatch, warrants further investigation.

gvcormac
5k Poster
Posts: 524
Joined: April 20th, 2022, 10:27 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by gvcormac » May 8th, 2024, 8:19 am

jakabasej7 wrote:
May 7th, 2024, 5:50 am
gvcormac wrote:
January 8th, 2024, 10:32 am
I changed batteries several times in an effort to correct H9 issues. In addition to the preposterous readings which occurred independent of battery charge, it would simply fail to connect (first bluetooth; later ANT+) when the batteries were low.

At one point I convinced myself that the H9 went through batteries in a couple of weeks if I left it paired with my smart watch, even when unsnapped from the belt.

Maybe this was just an illusion.
The phenomenon you described, where the H9 seemingly depleted batteries at an accelerated rate when paired with your smartwatch, warrants further investigation.
I don't use the Polar much any more -- only for legacy devices that require gymlink. So I don't have an update on the battery problem. I never connect it to the smart watch anymore. I haven't changed the battery in a year, and it still works, for some definition of works.

I now own the H9, a Coospo, and a Garmin Dual. The H9 is the least reliable. The Coospo is pretty reliable, but still occasionally gives bonkers readings (near high-tension lines, I think). The Garmin is the most reliable. On two or three occasions it has given weird readings for a few seconds, but always come back to sensible in under a minute. The H9 is unusable on my 10km route, and really marginal indoors with the legacy equipment. I have old Polar t31 and t34 transmitters tha work a lot better (uncoded is best), but eventually they're going to die -- either of (non-replaceable) battery depletion or snapping dried-out plastic. So I generally use them in preference to the H9.

Tsnor
10k Poster
Posts: 1130
Joined: November 18th, 2020, 1:21 pm

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by Tsnor » May 10th, 2024, 12:48 pm

FWIW I saw very similar results (to the per stroke data posted above) with a polar H10, with errors happening much more often after an hour than in first 10 minutes. (h10 and h9 are same internal chip, but ship with different belts and firmware loads). New battery in h10 - no impact. New pro belt --> fixed. I got about 600 hours out of the first belt. I'm on second set of batteries with the second belt and saw the first glitch a month ago, but none since. First belt I sent through the washing machine every workout. Second belt I hand wash every workout. I'm sure that the second belt will fail, and I'll replace it when it does. I never found a use for HRV data, but like to have it and polar H10 accuracy makes it the reference belt for many HRV studies.

WayHand
Paddler
Posts: 40
Joined: June 15th, 2021, 3:10 am
Location: Derbyshire UK

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by WayHand » May 11th, 2024, 2:21 am

I had a better draining issue with the H9. My conclusion was that the belt had failed causing a short between the positive and negative terminals. I sent it away under warranty and received a new belt. You can check the belt resistance; do a search on YouTube and you will find some guidance.
Wayne Handley
Derbyshire UK
53; 6'-2"; 196lbs
2k 6:58.9 (2021)

gvcormac
5k Poster
Posts: 524
Joined: April 20th, 2022, 10:27 am

Re: Polar H9 issues: displaying low heart rate and negative trending rate

Post by gvcormac » May 11th, 2024, 7:13 am

WayHand wrote:
May 11th, 2024, 2:21 am
I had a better draining issue with the H9. My conclusion was that the belt had failed causing a short between the positive and negative terminals. I sent it away under warranty and received a new belt. You can check the belt resistance; do a search on YouTube and you will find some guidance.
Interesting; however, my drain occurred while disconnected from belt. That said, I do think the H9 in inordinately sensitive to the belt. Washing the belt maybe helped a bit but was not curative. I never wash the Coospo or Garmin belts -- just wipe after use.

Post Reply