Concept2 Forum

Hi,guys
Does anyone know about the force curve?I was told that this curve can teach myself by compare my own curve to the ideal curve.So I search on the internet,but there is no direct curve appearance,only says the smooth one is better

Here are some examples: https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... orce-curve

There is a bit more to it: some are more agressive at the catch (frontloaded stroke, not to be confused with exploading at the catch) and others are more backloaded. As very serious rowers are still divided among both groups, there isn't a clearcut recipe for the erg.

On the water, where angle of the oar and its effectiveness are much more important, there is a bit more research.

Looking beyond that, a key thing to watch out for is dents and kinks in the curve: typically the acceleration changed abruptly, suggesting a bad transition between legs and back or back and arms. These video's helped me a lot: https://youtu.be/eqPotv-nuDY , https://youtu.be/1Js_KBZ3x70 and https://youtu.be/88ovL6KombI

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

June 29th, 2022, 6:42 am

Here are some examples: https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... orce-curve

There is a bit more to it: some are more agressive at the catch (frontloaded stroke, not to be confused with exploading at the catch) and others are more backloaded. As very serious rowers are still divided among both groups, there isn't a clearcut recipe for the erg.

On the water, where angle of the oar and its effectiveness are much more important, there is a bit more research.

Looking beyond that, a key thing to watch out for is dents and kinks in the curve: typically the acceleration changed abruptly, suggesting a bad transition between legs and back or back and arms. These video's helped me a lot: https://youtu.be/eqPotv-nuDY , https://youtu.be/1Js_KBZ3x70 and https://youtu.be/88ovL6KombI

This link doesn't seem to be working for me, just asking if its something on my end?

matthew92 wrote: ↑

June 29th, 2022, 11:31 am

This link doesn't seem to be working for me, just asking if its something on my end?

Checked them all, all worked.

C2 force curve link worked for me. I didn't check the youtube links.

compare my own curve to the ideal curve.

The usual description was "left leaning haystack".

This is what you get if you take the catch with your legs, in order to catch up with the flywheel (or boat) as soon as possible; which reduces the slack at the catch and so allows a longer pull.

Using the legs first also lets us relax our arms and shoulders, engaging them after the legs and hips.

There are lots of closeups to be seen in HRR Day 4 (and soon, Day 5), showing this sequence.

It's neat that there does not seem to be an ideal force curve.

The measured force curve is different between men and women. (Women hit peak force earlier in stroke) But even so you'd think that there would at least be an ideal for men or women. not so. Essentially all the research end up with a conclusion like this one....

"Despite the abundance of work in this area, a lack of consensus still surrounds the relationship between force profile characteristics and rowing performance. " https://www.academia.edu/47899168/Over_ ... Do_We_Know

That said there are some things known about BAD vs ideal force curves. Use force curve to trigger looking at parts of your stroke. BUT don't change much without other supporting evidence. Instead compare your technique to technique videos and try to get a good, strong, safe stroke. Some of the stronger rowers here report irregular force curves.

Example blog: https://www.aliciarclark.com/using-force-curves/

Example from rowperfect. https://www.rowperfect.co.uk/german-8-r ... ce-curves/

I don’t understand what does « Double diamond » means in Concept2 screenshots of curves? Is it good? Or bad?

gilles13006 wrote: ↑

September 2nd, 2022, 7:34 am

I don’t understand what does « Double diamond » means in Concept2 screenshots of curves? Is it good? Or bad?

Neither good or bad, only showing more force applied at the catch in the stroke. Some explode at the catch, some apply more force with the hips/back. Main focus is to have a fluent movement and not generate the drops in the curve.

gilles13006 wrote: ↑

September 2nd, 2022, 7:34 am

I don’t understand what does « Double diamond » means in Concept2 screenshots of curves? Is it good? Or bad?

It is bad, although some Olympic rowers have been successful with a frontloaded force curve, which is quite similar (but not identical!). The problem is that "Exploding at the catch" has the huge downside that your arms are bent while the maximum leg-force is excerpted. In short sprints it typically is the approach, but those guys are built like tanks with huge arms and by the time fatigue sets in, they should be done.

For normal humans, this might hurt your arms quite a bit, as normally your back and arms are weaker than your legs. In essence, your back/arms will be struggling to get any force exerted as they are already handling the leg drive. Thus, they will be working hard to not act as a spring that is torn apart. This makes that inefficient, injury prone and impossible to maintain in the long run.