RowPro versus PM3/Logcard

[Cyclingman1]

I suspect the subject of RowPro has been discussed to death in this forum, but I am looking for some bottom line commentary. I only seriously started rowing this year (Jan).

I have a C2 with a PM3. I use a Logcard and upload to C2 with a Card Reader. I'm not unhappy with any of it.

What does RowPro add or subtract from what I can now do? I'm not interested in watching phony boats race on phony water.

Does RowPro tell me more useful things in real time and/or after the fact? I presume my PC is connected to PM3 during usage. Does one still use a Logcard during RowPro workouts to later upload to the C2 Logbook, which in turn can be used to place times in the rankings?

Is RowPro a stable product. In other words is written by a bunch of goofballs or is it really good. I don't need aggravation in my workouts, but if RowPro really is a plus, I would probably be interested.

Another question comes to mind. Does RowPro replace the C2 software in the PM3 monitor? If so, then one simply could not unplug the PC and return directly to former status quo.

Thk for any comments.

[Bob S.]

Does RowPro tell me more useful things in real time and/or after the fact? I presume my PC is connected to PM3 during usage. Does one still use a Logcard during RowPro workouts to later upload to the C2 Logbook, which in turn can be used to place times in the rankings?

Is RowPro a stable product. In other words is written by a bunch of goofballs or is it really good. I don't need aggravation in my workouts, but if RowPro really is a plus, I would probably be interested.

It does give you stuff like this:

RP data.png (12.97 KiB) Viewed 8720 times

Presumably that same data is also available in tabular form, but I don't know how to get it myself.

I would definitely not characterize the writers as a bunch of goofballs, but I have had problems with it - partly because of my own limitations in dealing with computers and partly because I am using the wrong platform, i.e. an iMac with Parallels instead of a PC, which RowPro was written for.

The Logcard still does its thing, along with RP, but some RP users use RP itself to upload the data to the C2 Logbook. The ranking will then show it as RP. I see no special advantage to that other than eliminating the use of a Logcard reader. The reader isn't necessary anyway, since the monitor itself acts as one if your computer is connected to it.

I use the RP for pacing, both with previous rows and with set pace boats, but that is already available with the monitor itself, so it does nothing more that put them on a larger screen with fancy graphics. It does show how many meters ahead or behind the pace boats are when they are out of sight. I haven't used the monitor's pacing system, so I don't know if it does that.

The pacing is useful if you want to try to match or beat one of your previous rows.

Oh, yes! I just remembered one big advantage that I just posted about a few days ago. The monitor and Logcard can store only 15 workouts and 5 of those are locked in the "standard" workouts on the monitor. Some of those 5 are useless. I don't know the limit of workout storage on RP, but I must have about 30 of them at this time. This is in addition to a set of about a dozen standard workouts (the usual ranked pieces) that are already built in. That has been very useful to me. One small problem is that there is a 20 split default, so I have to remember to change that when I want something else - no big deal except when I forget to change it and get 24 second splits for an 8 minute warmup.

Here is an example of an RP report (yesterday's warm up):

Screen shot 2012-04-04 at 9.03.35 AM.png (26.52 KiB) Viewed 8720 times

Note that, except for the DPS (distance/stroke), it is the same data as is available from the Logcard.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

I use the RP for pacing, both with previous rows and with set pace boats, but that is already available with the monitor itself, so it does nothing more that put them on a larger screen with fancy graphics. It does show how many meters ahead or behind the pace boats are when they are out of sight. I haven't used the monitor's pacing system, so I don't know if it does that.

The pacing is useful if you want to try to match or beat one of your previous rows.

Just tried using a previous row pace boat with the monitor - no comparison. I had forgotten the part about the monitor taking forever and a day to set it up and I found that when the pace boat is off screen, there is no indication as to whether it is ahead or behind, let alone by how much. Also, as far as I can tell, there is only one pace boat available, as compared to three on RP. I haven't tried to use a set pace boat on the monitor and am not sure how it is done - this trial was just a previous row case. With RP you can have a mix of set and previous rows.

Bob S.

[Carl Watts]

IWhat does RowPro add or subtract from what I can now do? I'm not interested in watching phony boats race on phony water.

I am always surprised at the number of people that purchase RowPro just for the analysis or just use it to row by themselves and never use the Online Rowing feature.

It may be no fun just watching but it sure is great to row and race with other real people ! Forget the pace boat, you know what its going to do before you even start rowing !

Parts of the latest version still need work when you compare you rows as they have based the calculations on pace rather than Watts and have not factored in the change of rating. I suspect the math is pretty difficult to get the exact result.

Pete at RowPro has been given plenty of feedback as to improvements, but the finer points take time. The core package is now an excelent and stable product but does expect the user to have some computer skills in both hardware and software.

Still waiting for either Concept 2 or Digital Rowing to be able to get the final result SPM in 1/10ths rather than keep on putting up with the rounding to the nearest 1 spm. The lower your rating the worse the error becomes.

[Bob S.]

It may be no fun just watching but it sure is great to row and race with other real people ! Forget the pace boat, you know what its going to do before you even start rowing !

The ideal of online racing has absolutely no appeal to me.

Bob S.

[djh]

The ideal of online racing has absolutely no appeal to me.

Obviously RowPro doesn't work for everyone but it's a great motivator for me.

[Bob S.]

The ideal of online racing has absolutely no appeal to me.

Obviously RowPro doesn't work for everyone but it's a great motivator for me.

I do use it to row against myself (past rows) and against pace boats. I find that very useful. It is available with just the monitor as well, but it takes forever to set up and there can be only one pace or past row boat. Today I did an SB 5km, using my one and lnly past 5km and a couple of pace boats bracketing the past row pace. I also like it since the graphs give more pace and HR detail than just the split data. I wish that I knew how to find it in tabular form, but that has been beyond me. I am just not into the competition stuff. I get enough of that at the few "ergattas" that I go to and going for crap like nonathlon scores and WRs.

Bob S.

[djh]

Obviously RowPro doesn't work for everyone but it's a great motivator for me.

...and going for crap like nonathlon scores and WRs.

Not only do I find rowing against other (real) human beings in RowPro a great motivator but I also (hate to say this!) enjoy seeing how I compare against other rowers my age in Nonathlon. This is partly because I use slides. Concept2 ranking used to ignore this, and I could see how I ranked against 50 or so other rowers in my age and weight group. It works differently now, and all my ranked workouts compare against a maximum of three other rowers who admit to using slides. In the four-minute event, which is clearly unpopular, I am the only one ranked in my age group.

[Cyclist2]

The On-line Rankings do have a filter for "indoor rower type" but if you just enter "all results" you come up in the entire list. To test this I put in all the filters for my age, weight for 10,000 meters. There I am in the whole list, with a "S" over in the right hand column. When I add the filter "slide results only", I am the only one listed! I do the Nonathlon and it doesn't take into account slides or not. Who cares? This is all for fun and entertainment, in my opinion. From my cycling, I know that I always go harder when I'm riding with others and I know I'd push myself harder rowing in company, too. I've considered the RowPro thing, and it sounds fun, but too much work and additional tech set up (for me). If I was still racing a boat, I'd probably do it.

[Bob S.]

This is partly because I use slides. Concept2 ranking used to ignore this, and I could see how I ranked against 50 or so other rowers in my age and weight group. It works differently now, and all my ranked workouts compare against a maximum of three other rowers who admit to using slides. In the four-minute event, which is clearly unpopular, I am the only one ranked in my age group.

There are even less who use the dynamic. It shows up with a D in the rankings like the S for slides, and, if you use your logcard for entry, you don't have any choice - it is all there on the logcard. But as has been said, your results can be viewed along with all the others - they just get labelled with S or D. I don't believe that S or D entries qualify for WRs. That certainly applies to 2k records and most likely for the others as well.

Eventually there may be a separate competition on dynamics if enough of them are sold, but it would be nigh impossible to set up a regatta with ergs on slides. The logistics are difficult enough with just plain model Ds.

Bob S.