RowPro Version 6??

[JaapvanE]

Parkrun is a worldwide phenomenon. They do 5k runs at thousands of locations every Saturday. It is entirely volunteer run and there is no entry fee. You register once with Parkrun, and then you can just show up to any race with your barcode.

That is a great setup and an extremely low barrier of entry (which is cool). There are some webbased pieces of software, but they lack features making them tough to use as a group. For decent group rowing you need some infrastructure, both for organising events (what time to meet, etc..) and to do stuff together.

Now that nearly everybody's on Zoom one could use that with the C2 racing software I guess. I tried this exactly once with RowPro during COVID but RowPro was already dying and I didn't try very hard.

With EXR we tried to use the Discord channel for voice communication. Sound can be filtered and it can be heard well. The issue is that most people aim to stay in Zone 2, but after 30 minutes, they are huffing and puffing anyways.

Meeting afterwards typically is done on Strava or Discord, where people can drop some lines (speech isn't too popular somehow).

Hmmm. ErgRace requires a PM5. RowPro requires a laptop and a printer cable and costs $$$. Neither is as inclusive as one would like.

You need to get some metrics somehow. EXR runs on any Apple, Android or Windows device, and the Windows version can use the printer cable to a PM3 and PM4. And off-brand machines can connect (causing their own kind of issues, but hey, they are out there, paddling along). Most webbased free apps support the PM5 and FTMS, but don't cut it in terms of community. EXR basically has taken over the baton from RowPro here, many members used to row at RowPro.

Do any of the online apps support setting up your own events? Preferably free, but let's see what's available.

EXR allows people to meet. This is how the larger organised group rows all started: people decided to meet at a given starting point at a given time. Our regular Saturday row was initially organied by Charlie Simpson (a former RowPro'er) and is now a group of 180 rowers of diferent pace, age and country of origin. Now EXR has taken over planning for the larger group rows.

Some smaller groups still meet this way: some start at 6:00AM CET to row together before breakfast. Somehow that group isn't too popular, but all five of them are there, every tuesday and thursday. Several of us have a group row at 17:00 CET. Discord allows us to publish events like that, polling interest for these events among everybody. They are planning to facilitate this more, but that is all in the future of monthly feature releases how easy it is to reach the entire EXR population.

But I also like to justrow and see who drops in. Last sunday I did a 21K, and 6K in a friend just dropped in. He planned for a 10K, liked the pace and stayed until finishing at his 15K. All is in community spirit and social contacts.

[gvcormac]

You need to get some metrics somehow. EXR runs on any Apple, Android or Windows device, and the Windows version can use the printer cable to a PM3 and PM4. And off-brand machines can connect (causing their own kind of issues, but hey, they are out there, paddling along). Most webbased free apps support the PM5 and FTMS, but don't cut it in terms of community. EXR basically has taken over the baton from RowPro here, many members used to row at RowPro.

Am I correct to assume that OpenRowingMonitor can't spoof a PM5 so as to communicate with Ergdata or Ergrace?

[JaapvanE]

Am I correct to assume that OpenRowingMonitor can't spoof a PM5 so as to communicate with Ergdata or Ergrace?

We deliberately haven't implemented specific protocol elements that are crucial for ErgData and ErgRace to function, as that would allow faking machines in race situations and add fake entries in the C2 logbook. Technically someone could reverse engineer this part of the protocol and potentially even add the verification code to it, but we will not cooperate to do this. As OpenRowingMonitor is designed to be fitted to any machine, there are olenty of opportunities to create fake data that way.

But for any other game we encountered so far our PM5 emulation and FTMS implementation work, so it hasn't been an issue. But hooking up a PM3/4 with a printer cable is cheaper.

[gvcormac]

But for any other game we encountered so far our PM5 emulation and FTMS implementation work, so it hasn't been an issue. But hooking up a PM3/4 with a printer cable is cheaper.

Yes, you can side-load OG Ergdata and connect with a cable, but there's no version of ErgRace that connects with a cable.

Also, last time I checked, RowPro quit working on my PM5 after a PM5 update. Not sure if it is back in business, or if it still works on my PM3 machine.

[nick rockliff]

But for any other game we encountered so far our PM5 emulation and FTMS implementation work, so it hasn't been an issue. But hooking up a PM3/4 with a printer cable is cheaper.

Yes, you can side-load OG Ergdata and connect with a cable, but there's no version of ErgRace that connects with a cable.

Also, last time I checked, RowPro quit working on my PM5 after a PM5 update. Not sure if it is back in business, or if it still works on my PM3 machine.

Rowpro works fine on a PM5 but they do still have problems getting sessions to start without something going wrong.

Rowpro v6 is also undergoing online test sessions now but I haven't joined one yet.

It seems not many people even use it now compared to Covid times.

[JaapvanE]

Rowpro v6 is also undergoing online test sessions now but I haven't joined one yet.

It seems not many people even use it now compared to Covid times.

Or could it be that people got tired of waiting and jumped ship?

RowPro seems to be in some kind of testing for years now, without a new product to show for.

If you look at competitors like EXR and CoZweat, RowPro has a huge step to make with V6 just to get on par. The graphics of CoZweat are absolutely amazing (at the cost of significant hardware specs). EXR excels in game design and more playful routes, and their development pace is absolutely brutal (new features each and every month for three years...). KinoMap offers great videos. And games like Ergatta really gamify training. The bar has been raised quite high by their competitors, while RowPro seems to be stuck in neutral gear....

[gvcormac]

I just tried RowPro on the demo license. Seems to work with the PM5, but they no longer let you set up any sort of preset on the demo. I have an old Windows 7 laptop with a permanent license, but that's too much effort for what RowPro is worth.

[Carl Watts]

I just tried RowPro on the demo license. Seems to work with the PM5, but they no longer let you set up any sort of preset on the demo. I have an old Windows 7 laptop with a permanent license, but that's too much effort for what RowPro is worth.

Despite what it looks like on screen you still need a really decent graphics card to drive it. An old Laptop will be useless, I was running a decent GPU for it over 10 years ago now to get decent frame rates.

You will need an entry level gaming rig to run Version 6.

[gvcormac]

I just tried RowPro on the demo license. Seems to work with the PM5, but they no longer let you set up any sort of preset on the demo. I have an old Windows 7 laptop with a permanent license, but that's too much effort for what RowPro is worth.

Despite what it looks like on screen you still need a really decent graphics card to drive it. An old Laptop will be useless, I was running a decent GPU for it over 10 years ago now to get decent frame rates.

You will need an entry level gaming rig to run Version 6.

Precisely the opposite of what I'm looking for -- a low barrier to entry. I want to be face-to-face with members of the community, not a metaverse rendering.

[Carl Watts]

Seems typical of the rowing community and yet 2 Million users on Zwift.

Despite 12 years banging away on RowPro, I have changed my mind, you do indeed need great graphics if you want the numbers to join.

[JaapvanE]

Despite what it looks like on screen you still need a really decent graphics card to drive it. An old Laptop will be useless, I was running a decent GPU for it over 10 years ago now to get decent frame rates.

That is either bad coding or bad optimisation. EXR runs on a six year old phone. Haven't tried antique laptops, but it even ran on my Surface Go (no dedicated GPU). Most webbrowser based games also survive without GPU. Only CoZweat and ImmersuRow require hefty processors as they use the near CGI option of their Unity/Unreal engine.

Precisely the opposite of what I'm looking for -- a low barrier to entry. I want to be face-to-face with members of the community, not a metaverse rendering.

I so do not want to see a half naked sweaty old guy with a bad form huffing and puffing...Nor do I want to be seen like that. Way too close for comfort and I'm already suffering enough.

Seems typical of the rowing community and yet 2 Million users on Zwift.

I don't know how typical this face-to-face expectation is for rowers in general. As I said: seeing other people row usually isn't a pretty sight. Avatars keep their form, always look decent and are placed in a nice scenery. Some scenes are just fun to row. It is that variation that keeps many going.

Despite 12 years banging away on RowPro, I have changed my mind, you do indeed need great graphics if you want the numbers to join.

You need acceptable graphics indeed. That is why EXR is doing so well. Don't know if you need CoZweat's or ImmersuRiw's near-CGI level of graphics, but EXR's level seems to be the minimum. EXR approach allows people to use cheaper hardware, which might hit a sweatspot. Don't know if CoZweat and ImmersuRows current extreme hardware requirements will be tomorrows cheap hardware, nor do I know their numbers of daily users.

But having game engines really ups this game, as any person can build a Zwift-like environment in his spare time in the matter of weeks. Swelldone has done that for rowing as well. So RowPro's current level isn't going to impress people anymore.

[gvcormac]

I come from the running community. At the same time I've been an indoor rower for 35 years, sans community. Though lately I've joined a virtual team, which I enjoy, but it doesn't afford much real-time face-to-face contact.

Part of what is attractive about the running community is its inclusivity. They cheer even the sweaty old guy running a 90 minute 10km. And they get together for snacks and podium at the end.

I don't much care about attracting millions of subscribers. Though obviously there's a market, as evidenced by equipment that is two-to-three times as expensive than a Concept2 and requires a subscription to avoid turning into a boat anchor. Or, as noted, Zwift.

And I absolutely do want to have face-to-face interaction, not just Discord or Slack or whatever.

[JaapvanE]

Part of what is attractive about the running community is its inclusivity. They cheer even the sweaty old guy running a 90 minute 10km.

I think we should celebrate anyone who gets off his comfy sofa and starts moving. A thing I like to call the inviting extended hand of sports where everybody is welcome regardless results, just because we all like the sport and like to see other people enjoy it as well. Just because of the fun if it, no ego's involved.

I'm lucky enough to find that in Judo, Rowing and skiing. I hope you find that kind of community in rowing as well, as it makes things so much more fun.

And I absolutely do want to have face-to-face interaction, not just Discord or Slack or whatever.

I like Discord as it allows me to connect to likeminded people, despite being on the other side of the world. I frequently row with people from the New Zealand, UK, South Africa and the US, and I love those textbased chats. But we all differ in our needs I guess.

[gvcormac]

I'm fine with Discord and electronic interaction in general, but I think it is a mistake to have that as one's only socialization.