Rowpro or EXR?

[Carl Watts]

It used to be very difficult to use ErgData AND RowPro at the same time, some bugs just never got sorted.

Why do that? EXR simply will send the workout to the C2 logbook for you. Doesn't RowPro do the same?

A year or so ago RowPro was not sending as much info to the C2 LogBook as ErgData. I waited a decade for RowPro to implement a simple stroke counter and it never did so way back I made my own counter running an opto reflective off the seat and a counter and then eventually ErgData came out with a stroke counter. Trying to run ErgData and RowPro on one PM5 was never 100% so in the end I ran two PM5's on the same Erg, one just ran RowPro the other ran ErgData. The Time/Distance on ErgData was always slightly better as you didn't have the race start or the latency of the internet connection. The two PM5 setup was pretty much perfect, the setup time took a little longer.

If you want to do a lot of low rate rowing you need a stroke counter. The average the monitor puts out in the results is pretty useless (due to rounding) when you get down to 16 or 17spm and if you do a 30R20 then you pretty much need to hit 600 strokes or you cannot compare your results to one another in terms of heart rate.

[nick rockliff]

Don't think the session shows as verified if you upload via Rowpro now. It used to but some of my old ones that were done on Rowpro are now down as not verified.

[Xrayvizhen]

If you want RowPro to work, don't update.

I have an older PM5 with latest update (last week) and it works fine with Rowpro even when using Ergdata at the same time.

Yes, there are lots of PM5 versions. I was skeptical when I read about this a couple of weeks ago, but sure enough, RowPro doesn't talk (properly) to PM5. I think you can "just row" and it eventually sorts itself out, but you can't program a row.

Well, I appreciate everyone's insight but like I said initially, everything is working just fine so I'm not updating at this point. WIth my setup, Rowpro is talking to both ErgData on my phone and the PM5 simultaneously without any issues that I can detect, so as far as I'm concerned, all is well. While the graphics might be a little dated, they're OK for my purposes and I've been setting up rows against my previous best and a pace boat that's a little faster which is pretty much what I wanted. Like I said, I don't want to compete against real people yet because I'll probably get slaughtered which will demotivate me. I only wish there is a way, and maybe there is and I haven't figured out how yet, to control the view so I can see all boats in the race at the same time. It seems to cycle through the various views and with most of them I can't see the other boats.

I"ll give EXR a try after the R.P. demo period is over.

[Carl Watts]

Mainly had problems with RowPro and Ergdata on the same PM5 trying to do the 10K for some reason.

Problems can include the row not loading to the PM5 correctly, you getting dropped or you just row past the finish and keep on going and your time is not recorded.

You only need the odd problem and its very annoying and you are pretty quickly looking for a fix.

Right at the start when ErgData came out you had to have a specific start up sequence or you couldn't get both RowPro and ErgData working on the 1st Gen PM5 at all so things have improved a lot.

[nick rockliff]

Just checked the age of my PM5, 29th March 2014. I'd just bought a PM4 from C2 in the UK, used it a couple of times and saw the PM5 was now available. Wasn't happy that they sold me a PM4 knowing the 5 was due out that same week. They took it back and sent me a PM5.

[Carl Watts]

The second Gen PM4 is still a good monitor if you have one, we run one on the Model C Erg.

Not really a load of benefits in a PM5 for the average user, if the PM4 did not have wireless ANT+ for the HR sure it would be a problem for me, but most people can do without a backlight and connectivity to their mobile.

Still repairing plenty of PM2 monitors over here, people like them.

[Xrayvizhen]

Another newbie question here: I see that there are RowPro versions for both PC and Mac. I have it for the PC which so far, I like. But I see there is also a myRowpro for Android and for iOS. So, what's the difference between the two? I also see that EXR has versions for everything; PC, Mac, Android and iOS. Is there an advantage / disadvantage using a computer version vs. a phone/tablet version of either program?

So far, it's a little bit of a pain (but not a huge deal) to take my laptop down to the basement and connect everything up (laptop, PM5 & phone running ErgData connected via Bluetooth to the PM5). Sometimes I run a Youtube workout on the laptop and view it on a 27" screen while relying on ErgData / PM5 for the data and timing. Other times I'm running RowPro and watch on the larger screen. Is there a simpler way I could be doing this? I have a spare Chromecast dongle I could use as well. Just curious how everyone sets things up.

If these questions have already been answered on another thread, point me in the right direction.

[Carl Watts]

I use a dedicated SFF PC like a Hp Z240 running HDMI into an old 32inch Sony TV thats useless for anything else these days other than a 1080p monitor and sound. It has an old Nvidia GT750Ti graphics card which is more than enough. Put it all on an old entertainment unit, the challenge is getting the monitor up high for the bike.

Same rig is now running Zwift.

A laptop would be a pain if you need to keep moving it. I bough a Samsung A9 Tablet just to run the Zwift companion app and its a perfect fit on the Wattbike Trainer device holder which is where it lives unless its being charged.

Cannot get the bike and the rower directly in front of the TV so its on a monitor arms so I just swing it while on the bike.

Setup time needs to be minimised

[JaapvanE]

Another newbie question here: I see that there are RowPro versions for both PC and Mac. I have it for the PC which so far, I like. But I see there is also a myRowpro for Android and for iOS. So, what's the difference between the two? I also see that EXR has versions for everything; PC, Mac, Android and iOS. Is there an advantage / disadvantage using a computer version vs. a phone/tablet version of either program?

I use both the PC and Android version of EXR. The Android version is almost identical to the PC version. The Android app boots faster. I have a 15" USB-C touchscreen which fits perfectly in the C2 tablet holder, where I can plug in my phone. It then gets charged and my screen is displayed on the touchscreen, allowing me to run EXR on the 15" touchscreen. A couple of months ago I decided to repurpose my old phone, and now I have a dedicated setup without too much cost.

I hope to move to a slightly different set-up in 2024. I have a large TV screen and a Nvidia Shield (running AndroidTV), that also can run EXR. So I want to move that to my wall in front of my RowErg. A friend of mine hooked up a Apple TV to his home projector, which is so awesome, that it will be my end goal.

The PC app I often use to edit my custom workouts as it has a keyboard and mouse attached, and EXR syncs everything. Also I use it when travelling as the PC version also allows a cable connection to older PM's (this is the only difference with all other versions).

So far, it's a little bit of a pain (but not a huge deal) to take my laptop down to the basement and connect everything up (laptop, PM5 & phone running ErgData connected via Bluetooth to the PM5). Sometimes I run a Youtube workout on the laptop and view it on a 27" screen while relying on ErgData / PM5 for the data and timing. Other times I'm running RowPro and watch on the larger screen. Is there a simpler way I could be doing this? I have a spare Chromecast dongle I could use as well. Just curious how everyone sets things up.

According to the docs (haven't tested it myself), EXR can be cast to the Chromecast without issue.

[Carl Watts]

A really big screen would be great and if I had a wall in front of me to put it on I would be ideal, then you can "Upgrade" one of the TV's already in the house and move the old one to use as a monitor.

Besides the fact some of the newer TV's have a better picture (if you are prepared to pay for it) but one of the unseen benefits is much faster Wi-Fi in them with the newer ac and ax standard.

Unfortunately the "Wall" in front of me is in the garage and the whole thing moves up and down !!!

Great for airflow but bad for putting a TV on.

[JaapvanE]

A really big screen would be great and if I had a wall in front of me to put it on I would be ideal, then you can "Upgrade" one of the TV's already in the house and move the old one to use as a monitor.

That is exactly my approach. Upgrade and repurpose the livingroom TV.

Unfortunately the "Wall" in front of me is in the garage and the whole thing moves up and down !!!

Great for airflow but bad for putting a TV on.

On the EXR discord server we shared some setup pictures, and one of the guys has a brilliant solution: a moveable TV stand. He used it in his garage to switch between a bike and the rower next to it. In essence, it is a VESA mount with wheels, some with a small table attached for a set-top box. The more flexible types can move the screen up and down and have a limited swivel to change the viewing angle. I looked on Amazon, and they are quite affordable.

[Xrayvizhen]

As the O.P. of this thread, I thought I would just announce, not that anyone should actually care, I'm going with RowPro. I downloaded trial versions of both R.P. and EXR, have been using each for the past week and although the graphics of EXR are prettier, R.P. 5.8 suits my needs perfectly.

EXR actually seems a little boring. Just rowing on a lake, despite the planes overhead, the train on the shoreline and the mountains in the background, occasionally coming into contact with other rowers, some moving faster than me, others slower, just doesn't do anything for me. Guys moving faster than me I can't keep up with and those slower can't keep up with me which means I'm basically rowing alone most of the time. With RowPro I have been happily setting up competitive rows of various distances against my previous best plus a pace boat moving at a speed I select, something that doesn't seem possible with EXR although maybe it is and I just haven't figured out how. Also, RowPro's annual plan, after all the discounts, cost only $48, and if at some point in the coming year there actually is a Ver. 6, it will be a free upgrade.

I'm not looking to set any records or win any accolades or prizes, real or figuratively. I just want to strengthen my core, hopefully get rid of a little pot belly that's developed, get back some definition in my shoulder muscles and maybe all that will help me improve my golf!

[JaapvanE]

EXR actually seems a little boring. Just rowing on a lake, despite the planes overhead, the train on the shoreline and the mountains in the background, occasionally coming into contact with other rowers, some moving faster than me, others slower, just doesn't do anything for me. Guys moving faster than me I can't keep up with and those slower can't keep up with me which means I'm basically rowing alone most of the time.

Hence the presence of group rows with pace groups. And robot rowers. But having a good pace boat is indeed a wish many have.

With RowPro I have been happily setting up competitive rows of various distances against my previous best plus a pace boat moving at a speed I select, something that doesn't seem possible with EXR although maybe it is and I just haven't figured out how.

Your first race in EXR is always for finding your pace. After that, your put in a group of rowers with a very similar end time.

But, your choice is a very valid one and as said: I still hope they will release V6.0 and add some competitive spice in the race between EXR and RowPro. Keep on rowing!

[Carl Watts]

RowPro V6 graphics are much better you even had some ducks taking off and now there is plenty of detail onshore.

My concern still is if you cannot get it up and running a whole year after I had a test row..........

The rowing need to move through a lot of different camera angles to make it interesting, Zwift can move through 9 during the ride.

RowPro used to have a second view down the course but that disappeared in later versions and so did a few of my suggestions that got implemented and then dropped. I don't get software developers sometimes, do a load of work then drop it when you can just keep a tickbox options settings to turn things on and off.

RowPro also needs a full screen graphics mode where you can drop all that twin screen and rubbish off the bottom 1/3 of the screen now ErgData has come along.

[JaapvanE]

RowPro V6 graphics are much better you even had some ducks taking off

EXR has these too. Still not certain if I consider them a plus though. One scared the hell out of me by taking off and flying right into the camera, without any comic effect but with a lot of loud duck noises. Filed a bugreport about that one. You can turn the ducks off now. And the ducks seem to behave nicely since then as they fly off to the sides. Still a bit anxious when I see some float about though....

My concern still is if you cannot get it up and running a whole year after I had a test row..........

That is my fear as well. Might be they are in over their heads. Might be they do a lot of work behind the scenes which you and I will never see, but is important (like code cleanup). But I hope they are making progress, as other competitors are out there as well, so standing too long still might kill their business.

The rowing need to move through a lot of different camera angles to make it interesting, Zwift can move through 9 during the ride.

I don't know about that one. EXR has two static views and one dynamic. I personally love the default view, as I can see what is coming up and I like the scenery as it changes (especially Henley Loop) with the avatar in it. Some like the static Point Of View, which basically shows you what you'd see if you really rowed there. Never got the hang of that one as everything moves backwards.

The cinematic mode with changing angle has some awsome perspectives, but changes far too quickly for my taste. I never could get a hang of it diving from an eagle eye view to a bow view to a side view, while I was moving up and down the rail. I know some people who like it but it got me seasick more than once, so it's not for my taste.

RowPro used to have a second view down the course but that disappeared in later versions and so did a few of my suggestions that got implemented and then dropped. I don't get software developers sometimes, do a load of work then drop it when you can just keep a tickbox options settings to turn things on and off.

Sometimes you need to drop stuff because it doesn't fit the CPU power you are aiming for. Or it gets in the way of another feature. But, that normally should only happen in early builds and not to stuff released to beta testers. Features might get dropped in Beta because it doesn't meet quality standards, potentially based on user feedback. Saw that happen a couple of times on commercial products I betatest, although a release or two later is was back and improved. I guess that is why betatesters sign NDA's.

RowPro also needs a full screen graphics mode where you can drop all that twin screen and rubbish off the bottom 1/3 of the screen now ErgData has come along.

Regardless of ErgData being as good as it is now, people might not need a lot of data and just want a scenery. I totally understand your frustration about a cluttered screen, as that was one of the big issues with RowPro that turned me away from them (even before EXR existed). I never understood building a 3D-like environment, just to clutter it with all kinds of data.

In fact, I see it in my own current setup. When I row on EXR in a training session I just want pace, SPM and HR on the screen, as EXR helps me see the targets I'm trying to hit (which the PM5 doesn't show). But when I row in a group row, I only want to see the list of nearby rowers etc.. I typically minimize or turn off most metrics as I bought the product for the scenery, not for the metrics (as indeed ErgData does a pretty good job there already). On Strava I see most people use a similar minimal layout on EXR. You are far from alone in this need for a decluttered GUI.