PM5 disconnects when sending a workout from ErgData app

[il_dolore]

I have hired a rowerg with PM5; I updated the firmware immediately (last week).

The ErgData app is always updated.

When I create a workout on the app the PM5 disconnects while attempting to send/upload.

The devices always reconnects fine.

I'm also using a Garmin heartrate monitor which is Bluetoothed to the PM5, and headphones that are Bluetoothed to the phone.

The rowerg I had prior to this particular machine (2023) did not have this issue. I've updated my phone between also.

I was unable to find a similar issue in searches, apologies if this has a simple fix.

[Sakly]

BT is a 1:1 protocol and typically phones can only have one connection to another device.
Try again without BT headphones and see if that works.

[MPx]

What Sascha says....and maybe connect the Garmin with Ant+ instead of bluetooth if available.

[il_dolore]

Apologies the HRM connection is Ant+

I tried my phone without any other connections (headphones or HRM) and it still drops out when trying to send a workout.

I connected a different phone and was able to send a workout.

It must be related to this phone specifically.

It's a Nokia G11 plus

[Sakly]

Apologies the HRM connection is Ant+

I tried my phone without any other connections (headphones or HRM) and it still drops out when trying to send a workout.

I connected a different phone and was able to send a workout.

It must be related to this phone specifically.

It's a Nokia G11 plus

Based on this test result, I agree. This specific phone seems to have issues with ergdata and PM5 connection.
If you need to stay with this phone, you could probably try ergzone. It is a free third party app, doing the same thing like ergdata, but a bit different. See if that app works

[Tsnor]

Just because it's phone specific doesn't mean it's the phone. Log out / clean uninstall / reinstall / relink to log cleans up a lot of debris.

Talk to concept2 if that doesn't fix it.

Concept2 support is very responsive and does get you to the developers very quickly. You've done great debugging to isolate the problem to a re-creatable phone specific problem, maybe they can find the issue and work around it.

I use email when I talk to them and get 2-3 day replies from technical staff. Faster when its a cut paste answer like what to do for a specific error code or a pm5 bricked on firmware update.

email = info@concept2.com Other have used the support phone number in the website and that worked.

Concept2 does not follow these forums or use them for support so you need to contact them.

[il_dolore]

Thanks for the suggestion.

I tried ergzone. I allows me to send a workout, but I can't connect to both the headphones and the PM5 at the same time! It explicitly connects to the PM5 using Bluetooth.

Does the ErgData app not also Bluetooth to the PM5?

My work around is to make the workout on the PM5, just a bit more fiddly but it works.

[il_dolore]

Just because it's phone specific doesn't mean it's the phone. Log out / clean uninstall / reinstall / relink to log cleans up a lot of debris.

Talk to concept2 if that doesn't fix it.

Concept2 support is very responsive and does get you to the developers very quickly. You've done great debugging to isolate the problem to a re-creatable phone specific problem, maybe they can find the issue and work around it.

I use email when I talk to them and get 2-3 day replies from technical staff. Faster when its a cut paste answer like what to do for a specific error code or a pm5 bricked on firmware update.

email = info@concept2.com Other have used the support phone number in the website and that worked.

Concept2 does not follow these forums or use them for support so you need to contact them.

Sorry I hadn't refreshed my page and didn't see your reply.

I thought this was the concept2 bug reporting forum!

Thanks for the suggestion I'll send them an email direct.

[Sakly]

Thanks for the suggestion.

I tried ergzone. I allows me to send a workout, but I can't connect to both the headphones and the PM5 at the same time! It explicitly connects to the PM5 using Bluetooth.

Does the ErgData app not also Bluetooth to the PM5?

My work around is to make the workout on the PM5, just a bit more fiddly but it works.

As I wrote, BT is a 1:1 connection. I would wonder, if you can connect to PM5 and headphone using ergdata, as it's also using BT for PM5 connection.

[JaapvanE]

As I wrote, BT is a 1:1 connection. I would wonder, if you can connect to PM5 and headphone using ergdata, as it's also using BT for PM5 connection.

As I wrote elsewhere as well. It actually is a design choice to do so. A PM5 te3chnically can support more BT connections, as does a phone. With OpenRowingMonitor we allow 1, but its smaller sister ESPRowingMonitor supports 3 simultaneous connections without issue.It is just the question whether one wants the hassle of dealing with a differentiated subscriber model (the PM5 characteristics actually would allow a much more fine-grained approach where there would be a difference between listeners and controllers of the workout) or wants to implement conflict resolution strategies. And newer bluetooth versions actually allow multicast. But C2 has chosen to allow one data connection to the PM5.

Phones accept many connections simultaneously without issue, unless it is older than a decade or so. Listening to music on wireless headsets and using your watch to control it is a surprisingly common scenario. Most BLE connections are in fact semi-permanent anyways: my watch is connected 24x7, despite not always being useful (don't use it to see notifications' etc..). My watch also connects to my HRM belt, my Wahoo Headwind and my PM5 while rowing, never really been an issue at all.

could be an issue in the bluetooth stack that is causing issues. Shouldn't happen, but some manufacturers are known to have their deviating opinions on how to interpret the specifications.

[Sakly]

As I wrote, BT is a 1:1 connection. I would wonder, if you can connect to PM5 and headphone using ergdata, as it's also using BT for PM5 connection.

As I wrote elsewhere as well. It actually is a design choice to do so.

True, didn't remember that. I was never into BT specs, so probably really old thinking of the 1:1 connection.
Perhaps it is also related to the amount of data to be transferred, if multiple connections work. Both PM5 and music player are transferring much data.

[JaapvanE]

Perhaps it is also related to the amount of data to be transferred, if multiple connections work. Both PM5 and music player are transferring much data.

The PM5 is actually quite efficient and isn't transferring much data. It is all extremely efficiently packed in binary messages. A message is about 20 bytes, and are sent in groups of maximum of 4 messages per 250ms.

What you typically see is that certain manufacturers have a different implementation of the underlying transport protocol, resulting in weird behaviour. I owned a Huawei phone which had huge issues with some BLE connections as it did something weird somewhere. My Garmin watch simply didn't work well with it (there is still a support article about it). The app can't fix that as it is an OS layer causing the issues. It gets better over time as these errors are ironed out, but it is annoying as hell.

[il_dolore]

For completeness on this topic, yes the ErgData app has had no issues BT to multiple devices (PM and ear phones).

Whereas ErgZone would cut the earphones when connected to the PM.

Personally ErgZone also wasn't dark mode enabled, which is an immediate app killer for me unfortunately.

I'll test the advice of uninstalling ErgData tomorrow.

Thanks everyone

[nick rockliff]

Thanks for the suggestion.

I tried ergzone. I allows me to send a workout, but I can't connect to both the headphones and the PM5 at the same time! It explicitly connects to the PM5 using Bluetooth.

Does the ErgData app not also Bluetooth to the PM5?

My work around is to make the workout on the PM5, just a bit more fiddly but it works.

As I wrote, BT is a 1:1 connection. I would wonder, if you can connect to PM5 and headphone using ergdata, as it's also using BT for PM5 connection.

The 1:1 is not a protocol restriction. Some HR monitors support dual Bluetooth connections.

The PM5 only supports a single BT control connection, but does support both it's control connection and a
bluetooth heart rate monitor at the same time. So at least two BT connections from a PM5.

Phones generally support up to Bluetooth 7 connections but some support more.

I wondered about this. I always connect my HR monitor first via BT then connect ergdata. Never had a problem. I'm presuming this method is two separate connections?

[Tsnor]

I wondered about this. I always connect my HR monitor first via BT then connect ergdata. Never had a problem. I'm presuming this method is two separate connections?

Yes, exactly. Two separate connections.

Did you ever try connecting ergdata first? Ergdata will then remember your HRM and connect it to the PM5 which saves a few keystrokes.