RowPro, ErgData, TrainingPeaks/WKO5 + rowing power data/TSS

[ArenT]

Hello all

A question (after the preamble!).

So realising that after the usual scenario of "too much focus on work and not enough on health/fitness" plus a somewhat stressful start to this year, decided it was time to rectify things and start using my RowErg and SkiErg in a more systematic manner and shift some flab. I realised I also had an old RowPro v4 license lying around, so decided I would pick up a cheap second-hand laptop off eBay and dedicate it as my "workout" machine. Cleansed and with all of the unbearable garbage/bloatware of Windows 10/11 fixed with Revi OS playbook (topic for another post, I'm a GNU/Linux chap on all my other computers), got that setup, only to realise that RowPro 4 doesn't work properly with PM5. Fine, so updated to latest (trial) version of RowPro. Also installed WKO5 on a trial; GoldenCheetah on GNU/Linux drove me mad with its interface, plus it is so singularly orientated around cycling only; WKO5 seems to work much more nicely with multi-sports. I do a mixture of running, cycling, rowing, strength, etc.

Anyway, all good, and I'm enjoying the custom workout editor/textual format (bit like intervals.icu one, though not as polished, but good enough). Linked it to my C2 logbook. Linked my C2 logbook to TrainingPeaks. I also record my workouts on my Garmin watch, but then delete the duplicate off TrainingPeaks; want the Garmin one for calculation of training load/recovery/etc. Workouts run perfectly.

The issue is with correct transfer of power data through to TrainingPeaks. I need to do further experimentation, but:

1. Rows uploaded with RowPro to C2 show all of the stroke data etc. Great. However, the synced workout from C2 then on TrainingPeaks is missing the power channel, meaning it is using hrTSS instead of true TSS calculated against your rowing FTP setting.
2. I tried a short test workout on the SkiErg directly recorded/uploaded via ErgData. This had the stroke data in C2 logbook and correctly also sent the power data in the file that ended up in TrainingPeaks, meaning it had true TSS.
3. I had a "continuous" row via RowPro uploaded to C2. With this one, I was able to download the .FIT file and manually upload it into TrainingPeaks, this had all of the power data, complete.
4. The .FIT download option does NOT work for the workouts I've done that use custom intervals etc. The workouts show all of the stroke data on the C2 logbook. But when you click to download the .FIT file, it just errors out.
5. Now, I have a Garmin 955. So you might say, why not just connect to the RowErg using its special smart connection. However, this is useless. It is completely unreliable: it does not seem to work reliably, constantly either not recording either distance or power correctly etc. Just super unreliable. Also, it doesn't connect to/understand the SkiErg.

So what I can't identify, yet, is:

a) Is the problem one of "continuous" = good, all power data (e.g. say row a 10,000 set piece), vs intervals = bad, no proper FIT file generation from C2
b) Is the problem RowPro

To put my question another way, has anyone found a reliable way of making complex interval workouts on the RowErg/SkiErg, that retain all of the power data/channel when uploaded/transferred to TrainingPeaks?

I know some people/I've read some posts where people are training using RowPro with their PM5 connected via USB to that, and have their PM5 connected to ErgData via bluetooth for the data recording. Is this the reason? Is the only way to get proper full transfer of all of the power data into TrainingPeaks to record the workout as one continuous/non-interval recording, via ErgData? Seems a bit daft if so.

If so, I can do this, just slightly annoying having to have such an elaborate combination, i.e.

1) Have RowPro for the workout/programming
2) Have ErgData for the workout recording/transfer to C2 + TrainingPeaks
3) Have Garmin watch recording for Garmin Connect/Forerunner 955 on watch training load/recovery metrics/etc., then manually delete duplicated Rowing/SkiErg workout on TrainingPeaks (i.e. the one without power data).

Also, I really don't understand why the C2 logbook can show my workouts complete with stroke data for all intervals, etc. but be completely unable to generate/download a FIT file.

Any words of wisdom from people combining C2 rower with TrainingPeaks/WKO and true power data/TSS?

[ArenT]

Just in case anyone is interested, I'll answer my own question.

1. Unfortunately RowPro cannot be recommended any more, which is a pity. The latest version of the software does not properly support the latest PM5 firmware, and the software slowly seems to be heading towards abandonware. In other words, if you keep your PM5 properly updated via the C2 Utility (as you should), you'll find that it breaks RowPro. I also suspect the issue with the fit files on the C2 website was due to the (bad) data RowPro was sending. They should consider open-sourcing the software so it gets a second life/rejuvenated by keen software enthusiasts in their spare development hours. It was great back in the PM4 days a decade ago.
2. In terms of programming workouts, C2's own ErgData application is generally better anyway, and for 90% of users is a great option.
3. ErgZone is probably the best overall training application, in my opinion, due to the ease with which workouts can be created, saved, organised, etc. Full functionality is not completely free like ErgData though, but I think I'm tempted to upgrade.
4. EXR Rowing is fun but from a training/programming point of view, is quite expensive and not as good as ErgZone or TrainerDay, which most people might not realise also supports the RowErg and has a very large workout library.
5. My Garmin 955 watch started behaving properly and recording very accurate stroke-by-stroke data, including power etc., once I completely re-paired it with the PM5. Frustratingly, it only recognises/works with the RowErg or the BikeErg, but not the SkiErg, so no skiing power, for those of you that use a SkiErg. Maybe one day Garmin might get round to supporting it.

[Sakly]

2. In terms of programming workouts, C2's own ErgData application is generally better anyway, and for 90% of users is a great option.
3. ErgZone is probably the best overall training application, in my opinion, due to the ease with which workouts can be created, saved, organised, etc. Full functionality is not completely free like ErgData though, but I think I'm tempted to upgrade.

Cannot say much about the other stuff I deleted from the quote, but comparing ergdata and ergzone I come to a different conclusion.
I find the user interface, organisation and setup of workouts is better managed in ergdata (let alone all metrics are for free).
The only advantage I find in ergzone is, that different competitions and plans are directly incorporated and can be accessed through the app. That is really a nice feature!
I faced some stability problems with ergdata, this lead me to ergzone, which is rock solid stable. If ergzone had a better organization of the manually created workouts, I would definitely recommend ergzone.