Need advice on apps and possible pm5 upgrade

[R0Y]

Hi I’m new here but not to ergs. I’ve owned a model d/pm3 since 2005, although it’s only been used consistently for three periods of time. It only has 1 million meters on it, although at the pace I’m rowing I’ll easily do that in the next year.

I have been using a polar h10 (replaced an old wahoo) and use the data from polar beats/polar flow apps, my times, splits etc from my pm3 (I have the polar sensor for it) and enter it all into a spreadsheet to track my progress. There is a big con to this: After working out I like to be able to look at the graph of my heart rate, and see what it was during certain parts of my workout - at the end of interval 5, for example, or at a certain time during a timed erg. In other words I want a mix of the analytics that I get from the heart rate monitor apps and website as well as my rowing stats. I have a road bike and while I haven’t been on it in a few years I’m pretty sure the wahoo tickr app let me click on points along my route and would give me stats like distance travelled, speed and heart rate.

Are there any apps for the erg that will combine my row with my heart rate, let me see what it was at certain points in time and how hard I was rowing? If so, which ones? And will I need to upgrade from pm3 to pm5 to be able to more easily use them? Or would upgrading give me more in the way of analytics? I’ve never been serious enough about using my erg to even upgrade the firmware, but this time is different. While my splits are not competitive, my times have plummeted. I’ve been working hard on my form and have really gotten the feel for it. Each tweak improves my times, plus I’ve gotten into decent cardio shape. I do a proper leg drive now instead of using my arms too much. I want to get the most out of ergs…ironically, as painful as they can be, I love doing them. Doing them feels natural in a way cycling doesn’t for me.

Appreciate any and all advice and help.

R0Y

[R0Y]

Hi, earlier I erroneously posted a similar question to the indoor rower forum, and I assume the moderator won’t post it there.

I have had an erg model d/pm3 since 2005 but haven’t used it seriously or consistently until now.

I am currently using a polar h10 with the beats and flow apps, plus I have the polar sensor for the pm3 which I bought when I bought the model d.

In the past I’ve also cycled while using a wahoo tickr heart rate monitor. If I recall correctly, inside of the wahoo app I could click on a point on the route and it would tell me my speed, distance traveled and heart rate. It also showed me the graph of my heart rate over the workout.

Right now after each row I manually enter my splits etc as well my heart rate in a spreadsheet. This is time consuming but works. The only caveat is I don’t have the graph of my heart rate over time. I like to see how much it spikes during intervals, for example.

If I upgrade to the pm5 Will there be a way for me to combine heart rate and my erg data in a similar way that the wahoo app combined data in its app? Is there an easy way to do it with a pm3? I assume it would be more automated using a pm5 but I don’t know a lot about them except people say they are crucial.

Thanks for any advice,
R0Y

[Sakly]

Hi, you could use the ergdata app from c2. As you need to connect to the PM the PM5 let's you easily connect with Bluetooth, PM3 can only be connected with cable to your device I think (and only works with the old ergdata app).
When rowed with ergdata you can easily push your workout to your logbook and get the data combined. Have a look into my logbook (link in signature) to see how the data is combined in graphs. You can also download stroke data from your logbook if you like.

Is this what you intend to get?

[gvcormac]

You can get a heart-rate receiver for your PM3 from Concept2. Although it is the old Polar protocol, your H10 will connect to it.

Then you can capture log info (including HR for every split) using a printer cable and Concept2 Utility.

Or you can use Rowpro in real time (also with printer cable).

PM5 is an easy but pricey upgrade. Your H10 will connect directly to PM5 using Bluetooth, and Ergdata will capture stroke-by-stroke data. You can also use the printer cable and Rowpro or C2 Utility.

[Tsnor]

You can get a heart-rate receiver for your PM3 from Concept2. Although it is the old Polar protocol, your H10 will connect to it.

Then you can capture log info (including HR for every split) using a printer cable and Concept2 Utility.

Or you can use Rowpro in real time (also with printer cable).

PM5 is an easy but pricey upgrade. Your H10 will connect directly to PM5 using Bluetooth, and Ergdata will capture stroke-by-stroke data. You can also use the printer cable and Rowpro or C2 Utility.

THIS ^^^

Also potentially impacting decision
1. you must stay on the old Ergdata platform if you stay PM3. The newer capabilities of the ergdata are only available with the PM5.
2. only polar belts (using gymlink 5ghz) will talk to the heart-rate receiver for your PM3. H10 is great, but at some point you might want to use a bluetooth wearable and they will only work with PM5.
3. HR broadcast is $25 + ship and plug in install. So a very painless choice that gives you what you want without a lot of work. https://shop.concept2.com/heart-rate-eq ... pment.html

[Carl Watts]

The move to a PM5 is a no brainer now, you would go that way just to get the ANT+ wireless heartrate now.

ErgData is a useful app to have running, however it was tricky to try and run that AND RowPro at the same time but everything is constantly changing and RowPro V6 is not that far away.

The rowing still lacks a really interactive software package like Zwift but with the PM5 you can connect the rower to Zwift very easily now via RowedBiker but its nowhere near as good as the WattBike I'm using.

[JaapvanE]

The rowing still lacks a really interactive software package like Zwift but with the PM5 you can connect the rower to Zwift very easily now via RowedBiker but its nowhere near as good as the WattBike I'm using.

I like EXR a lot, which gets a lot closer to Zwift nowadays. They already support multiple rowers, and they are working on races (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkZN_CBN8Qc). EXR requires a PM5. From the EXR app, you can upload directly to the Concept2 logbook.

[Carl Watts]

EXR and RowPro are okay, they will always struggle compared to Zwift as there is simply nowhere near the numbers.

Cyclists outnumber rowers at like 1000 to 1, you only need to get online with Zwift right now during the holidays and there can be 10,000 online.

The variety in the graphics will never be there either because you are stuck on level water but having said that RowPro has been great for the last 12 years of me using it and a core group of like minded online rowers has kept me motivated but it never hit critical mass in terms of users and I don't think it ever will because inherently cyclists ride in a Peloton where as rowing is a solo sport so the mindset is different from the get go.

[R0Y]

Hi, you could use the ergdata app from c2. As you need to connect to the PM the PM5 let's you easily connect with Bluetooth, PM3 can only be connected with cable to your device I think (and only works with the old ergdata app).
When rowed with ergdata you can easily push your workout to your logbook and get the data combined. Have a look into my logbook (link in signature) to see how the data is combined in graphs. You can also download stroke data from your logbook if you like.

Is this what you intend to get?

Yes! Thats exactly the type of information that I’m looking for. Thank you!

I know I’m going to want to do it eventually, so this might be the time to upgrade to the pm5.

[R0Y]

You can get a heart-rate receiver for your PM3 from Concept2. Although it is the old Polar protocol, your H10 will connect to it.

Then you can capture log info (including HR for every split) using a printer cable and Concept2 Utility.

Or you can use Rowpro in real time (also with printer cable).

PM5 is an easy but pricey upgrade. Your H10 will connect directly to PM5 using Bluetooth, and Ergdata will capture stroke-by-stroke data. You can also use the printer cable and Rowpro or C2 Utility.

THIS ^^^

Also potentially impacting decision
1. you must stay on the old Ergdata platform if you stay PM3. The newer capabilities of the ergdata are only available with the PM5.
2. only polar belts (using gymlink 5ghz) will talk to the heart-rate receiver for your PM3. H10 is great, but at some point you might want to use a bluetooth wearable and they will only work with PM5.
3. HR broadcast is $25 + ship and plug in install. So a very painless choice that gives you what you want without a lot of work. https://shop.concept2.com/heart-rate-eq ... pment.html

Thanks, I think I am going to buy a PM5 upgrade kit. If I had a beater laptop to put in the basement id probably use it with the pm3, but I don’t and I suspect I’ll be interested in the new capabilities of the pm5, ease of use.

I actually have the receiver for polar gymlink for the pm3. Still works great! It’s why I chose the h10 when I was picking out a new hr monitor a few weeks ago.

When you say Bluetooth wearable, are you referring to something like a watch or armband?

[Tsnor]

...
When you say Bluetooth wearable, are you referring to something like a watch or armband?

They are playing with vests now that track respiration thinking that might be better than HR. Vests also pick up HR. When that tech matures it'll shrink and fit in something wearable. 5-10 years if it pans out. Your PM5 and Erg will still be there.

Some people love armbands and watches. I like the accuracy of a belt. But if the watch accuracy ever gets good enough goodbye belt.

[JaapvanE]

EXR and RowPro are okay, they will always struggle compared to Zwift as there is simply nowhere near the numbers.

Cyclists outnumber rowers at like 1000 to 1, you only need to get online with Zwift right now during the holidays and there can be 10,000 online.

But cyclist like to ride in large groups as well, where in rowing it gets annoying. In our monthly "Row with the devs", we typically use Lake EXR (small lake), so in that hour you start to lap people as well. Can't say I like a too crowded lake, as you keep overtaking them. It is chaotic, as overtaking someone in a rower can take a minute. Currently, in a normal row, I encounter two or three people, which is a nice break, but doesn't crowd the waters. Otherwise you can activate the bots and allways encounter three or four rowers, but I rather row with real people.

The variety in the graphics will never be there either because you are stuck on level water

I like the Boston river Charles route. You start in some canal with lots of buildings, cross the lake with a city skyline and end in the river Charles, where the boat houses are. Lake Bled has its castle and hotels. I'd agree a fourth location would be welcome (I'd like some city canals like in Belgium or the Netherlands), but I guess that is a matter of time.

[jliddil]

So I am a long time Rowpro users and looking to either upgrade or look at other apps. Suggestions? I don't do much other than use it to track meters and upload online

[JaapvanE]

So I am a long time Rowpro users and looking to either upgrade or look at other apps. Suggestions? I don't do much other than use it to track meters and upload online

Than ErgData (Free C2 app) should be fine. If you want the nice scenery as well, RowPro and EXR come to mind.

[Carl Watts]

So I am a long time Rowpro users and looking to either upgrade or look at other apps. Suggestions? I don't do much other than use it to track meters and upload online

If you want great graphics then move to Zwift and interface to it with your phone using the RowedBiker App.

The only problems are that some people do not want to see a cyclist avatar while rowing they want a rower avatar and the second is the power translation is no good if you are a sprinter because the power range you can get on a bike far exceeds that of a rower and the App is to simple to be able to do the math. Probably the only solution would be for the App to use your heartrate for the power conversion and that would require the user to run a load of tests to build a profile.

Zwift has a free trial and when that runs out it still has 25km a month free that doesn't expire so you can still get a row or two in.

I don't ever see a bit of rowing software getting as good as Zwift, far more cyclists happy to pay monthly and their development team must be huge in comparison.

Unfortunately I got a foot injury from rowing and then I moved to Zwift for the recovery and now after 12 years of using the rower I cannot get motivated to use it again. I'm up to level 15 on Zwift and its just far more interactive than RowPro at this stage of the game.

Also Zwift has at least 3,500 people online minimum 24/7 so you can jump on anytime you feel like it instead of being tied to a time where as pretty much whenever you are online with any rowing apps you are the only person online in the whole world.