New to indoor rowing...relatively!

[Sean65]

Hi all,
Having attended gyms for many years, on and off, I found myself using the ubiquitous Concept 2 at nearly all of them. I rarely used them as a sole piece of equipment, but rather at the end of a weights work out. Anyway, having pondered extending the use of a rower, I decided to finally buy a Concept 2. (other machines were available but not worthy). So now it is at home I have begun looking at all the myriad of training options out there.
I have to confess to my flat out 1000m returning a time of about 4 mins 18 seconds with an s/r of between 30-42 (at the end of a weights session) seems woeful when looking at the numbers on here, but one has to start somewhere, I guess!
Watching numerous videos and reading the forum, most seem to be rowing a s/r of about 24 and still achieving good time. Am I missing something?
I must admit I am looking forward to becoming part of the rowing fraternity and any advice would be most welcome. Thanks.

[Sakly]

Hi and a warm welcome from another fresh beginner

Times are compareable, BUT you should mostly compare to yourself as everyone has a different background and if you are not going for competition it makes no sense to compare to the elite rower times.
For a good idea of where you stand in your age, gender and weight group you can use the rankings: https://log.concept2.com/rankings

Related to your 1k time I would assume that you have no good stroke technique, as a race rate 30-42 with such "low" result has low work/stroke ratio.
I suggest to slow rate down, focus on strong catch and drive with a proper release to prepare next catch.
There are plenty of yt videos for good technique and what you have to keep in mind.

[jamesg]

rowing a s/r of about 24 and still achieving good time. Am I missing something?

Probably the length of the stroke, and consequently the amount of work in each one, where Work = Force x Length.

Rowing is done with both legs together, plus swing and arms. This is the opposite of cycling and running, where we use one leg at a time, and with a short action.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

Keep the strokes long and fairly strong, with a pull sequence that lets you use your legs to start the stroke. You can then rest for at least two seconds before taking the next stroke, while the flywheel keeps spinning.

Big strokes are hard work, and so train us effectively: our legs can easily overload our CV systems, even at rating 20. The same stroke can then be used later at high ratings and short distances, if training for racing.

A lowish drag factor (120-130) allows this.

[Dangerscouse]

Welcome to the forum. In addition to stroke rate, are you aware of drag factor/ damper setting, footplate settings, 'shooting the slide' etc?

For a seemingly simple process, it is surprisingly technical. A great thing to remember is that you need to, basically, jump horizontally. Remember it's more of a push than a pull, as that gives you most of the power.

As Sakly says, comparison is a bad idea, and as Teddy Roosevelt said it's the thief of joy. No one starts off fast, so your times will improve with practice, and lots of dedication.

[Sean65]

Thank you for your welcomes and the very much appreciated advice. It is clearly an issue with the stroke. It feels right in terms of body position, but I really must not be maximising the proper motion. As someone who has spent many years in gyms I am reasonably good at isolating the muscles I use, so there is no particular strain on my arms and I do try to use my legs in the push, as I appreciate they are a much stronger muscle group which should be used to their full. I shall certainly be watching those video links and I will be trying the idea of the 2 second count.
The only upside of my very high stroke rate is I am exhausted quickly!
Would it be a good starting to point to have a setting of perhaps 5/ 6 on the C2 and aim for a s/r of about 24 for starters? I should practice what I preach to my school kids. Get the technique right first and the rest will come in time...
Thanks again.

I have just turned 57, weigh about 90kgs (needs to be about 85Kg...to lose off the middle), 5' 11" and generally active...gym, boxing, swimming. The after dinner sweet and biscuit box is the curse!

Having just looked at the rankings, my first target is sub 4.00 mins, then see where we go.

[MPx]

You need to look at drag factor not damper setting Sean, as all machines will vary on damper but will be the same on drag factor. On the PM its "More Options" then "Display drag factor". Row a few strokes and a number will display. There is no right number - just what feels best to you - but the general recommendation seems to be to start at around 120-130 for a few pieces (not just a few strokes) and then adjust up or down to see if going either way feels better. The most common misunderstanding is that higher is better and therefore all the top people would use 200+ (10 on the damper). Indeed many ergers do use 10 in the damper, but none of the elite atheletes or any that know what they're doing - unless its for very short sprints of <500m.

While the 1k is a sprint its way too far to just muscle it so you'll need to develop your aerobic engine too and that can take a while. Enjoy the early gains - they will hopefully come quickly as you develop a stronger stroke.

[Sean65]

Okay. At the gym this morning I entered the drag menu and set the damper to 7. Drag was about 71 ish. Lowered to 3 and about 54. Up to 5 and drag of low 60's. I couldn't get anywhere near the 3 digits in your post. Could it be that the machine is just very tired? I am not at home at the moment, so can not test on my new one.
I have taken a short technique video for some experience eyes to view. Once I can get it small enough to upload.

It doesn't appear I can upload videos unless I am doing something amiss.

[Sakly]

Old machines which are not maintained (mainly cleaned from dust) will have lower drag as air cannot flow freely, but is exactly what creates drag. So put damper on 10 - that's most drag you can get on this machine, perhaps 90. New ones have around 130 on setting 5.

Videos should be uploaded to yt or any other video host portal.

[Sean65]

Does this link work?
https://youtu.be/LZfc0fCIyOQ

[Ombrax]

Yes, it does work.

I'll let others comment - they know a lot more about this stuff than I do.

[Citroen]

Does this link work?
https://youtu.be/LZfc0fCIyOQ

You're bum shoving aka shooting the slide. Your rear end is going back before the handle has reached your knees.
I don't think it's quite as exaggerated as in https://youtu.be/QLEezSLwE1g

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... mon-errors

[Sean65]

Hmm! But if I am straightening my legs my bum is bound to move back. No?

[Ombrax]

Hmm! But if I am straightening my legs my bum is bound to move back. No?

Yes, and that's fine. The key is to keep your back stiff so the erg handle also moves, otherwise, you're wasting the power from your legs.

You want your body to be stiff enough so the force generated from your legs is applied to the handle to get the energy into the flywheel.

[MPx]

I couldn't get anywhere near the 3 digits in your post.

Wow...you are certainly going to notice a difference when you get on a clean machine. The gym ones could be easily recovered by just taking the cage cover off and hoovering them out - there must be a great deal of dust and crud in there. On a new/clean machine you should see from ~90ish on 1 to 220ish on 10. I didn't see too much wrong with your form, which maybe suggests I'm not qualified to say(!). But an extremely low drag requires an extremely fast stroke to accellerate the flywheel from the catch because with such a low DF it will not have slowed down much from the previous stroke. Fast strokes are good, but are very hard to do well when you're starting out and are trying to sequence Legs/Swing/Arms/Arm/Swing/Legs. That first Legs/Swing/Arms should be less than a second - with the recovery arms/swing/legs as long as required to make up the stroke rate. I think you'll find it much easier on your home machine at a DF of something over 100.

[Sakly]

You could use you back way more. Pelvis stays nearly the same position, back is not moving much, mainly part to the front for a good catch is missing. This leads to a small overcompression in the catch which gets you in a disadvantage for a strong leg push. So try to lean more forward and use a little less compression in the catch. This will also help to not open so early as you do right now, exactly because you are not moving forward with your trunk.
Keep an eye on your rounded lower back. If you use your pelvic to tilt your trunk you don't need to round.