Optimising the catch

[Noseve]

I have read some comments on here to the effect that there should be zero play on the chain at the start of the stroke, that there should be jolt-free resistance as soon as the handle starts its journey away from the chain guard. I am new to indoor rowing, and have assumed that the initial slack and subsequent jolt I feel at the beginning of each drive(the chain appears nice and flat, no bouncing) - virtually irrespective of the stroke rate - is down to poor technique.

There are plenty of videos referring to this issue. Unfortunately most seem to follow the route of simply pointing out the slack couple of inches (as though anybody suffering from it could miss it?!) then offering some drill which highlights the feeling, but provides no means of eliminating it. I know what it feels like already, I'm looking for a way to overcome it.
I can usually become technically sound pretty quickly at most new sports I make an effort to learn, but I need to know what doing something properly should feel like before I really start to progress.

It feels as though I am allowing the rotation to slow down too much in between strokes, but experimenting with unsustainable, high stroke rates doesn't seem to have any effect, which doesn't support the theory. Another thing - I can't imagine the sprocket surviving multiple millions of metres if it has to cope with this, long-term. If it helps, I am also unable to hit wattages anywhere near the figures that I see others claiming. When warmed up but still fresh and paying real attention to my technique, the top end of my reasonably sustainable watts for a sequence of 2ks is just over the 200 mark. Actually, even that's probably pushing it.

To all/any of you who have mastered the judder-free start to the stroke which is eluding me so far - is it a case of finding a happy match between drag factor, stroke rate and intensity, or is there a possibility that my machine (specifically I see references to the shock cable) may need adjustment? The machine is only a couple of weeks old, with just 100k on the clock. I set a drag factor around 125.

If anybody has a link to any genuinely helpful video on the matter, that would be great.

[jamesg]

At the catch, the flywheel is spinning. So we have to accelerate our entire mass to reach the same equivalent speed. This needs a short distance and is the slack we feel.

Same happens afloat: boats don't stop.

You're not missing anything. The remaining length and the force we apply are more than enough to overload our systems and so get us fit.

[Noseve]

At the catch, the flywheel is spinning. So we have to accelerate our entire mass to reach the same equivalent speed. This needs a short distance and is the slack we feel.

Thanks for that quick reply.

That is how I pictured it - that it is inevitable - yet there are videos from respected coaches pointing out the initial slack as a flaw.

Are you saying that everybody feels this short play, followed by the jolt as the chain engages? Also that the incredibly long chain lives quoted are even with the torque that this action is putting through them each stroke? Very impressive if so.

[Quatroux]

If I was lifting a giant rock off the ground, I would not attempt to jerk it from its resting position. I would not explode with force in an attempt to rocket the mass from its resting place. Instead, I would "squeeze" it off the ground. I'd get a good grip, brace myself, and apply increasing pressure until it was free.

In rowing, we talk about "jumping" on the catch. We say that we really want to change direction quickly between the recovery and the drive. This is usually good advice. However, I'd like to outline a few examples of when it goes wrong:

Arms: Soft arms are a common way to insert slack at the catch. When you begin the drive, do your arms straighten out? Is slack removed? I hope not. Your arms should already be straight and ready to catch BEFORE you catch. In fact, at the halfway point of the recovery, your arms should already be in their catch position. This means that your arms are in the same position from halfway up the slide on the recovery until you break the arms near the end of the drive. If you feel a change or movement during that time, you need to concentrate on eliminating it.

Abs: You need to be braced for the catch. I'm all for relaxing on the recovery and overall being as relaxed as possible during the entire rowing stroke. However, the handle and seat need to move together. If, at the beginning of the drive, your seat moves BEFORE your handle, you are too relaxed. The handle and seat should drive together and you need to engage your core/abs to do this for you.

My guess is that you are probably rushing up the slide on the recovery and using momentum to drive you into the catch position. You are then rebounding into the drive. Just a guess as I can't see you.

As far as the boat, we usually coach that you will feel the blades lock into the water. Only after you feel that connection do you drive. Novice crews will start the drive without this feeling. I think it is important on the erg to also feel connected at the catch and not to rush the transition from recovery to drive.

[Noseve]

Quatroux - thanks for that considered reply.

All understood and generally agreed. I have videoed myself and am pretty happy with my technique (at least before fatigue sets in), which is why I am slightly confused by the low watts stats that I see. My arms are prepared early and I am happy that I engage my core/lats fully, moving back as a unit, other than my legs.

I am aware of the braking effect of rushing the recovery, and consciously try to cosy up to the catch - at least as much as is possible in the time allowed. The coach on the decentrowing YouTube channel suggests an image of eggshells on the stretcher, which has stuck with me. I row alternate sessions strapless, and do not notice any difference in performance, which is pleasing.

From what you are saying, it would follow that everybody experiences this lull at the start of the drive. It must just be that the people I have studied are so strong on technique that they make it barely perceptible - in which case my question would be what do they feel for to achieve this? I can't believe that they sense the resistance on each stroke before commencing the drive.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[Quatroux]

Looks like you are thinking correctly about this and have really dug into it. As my old coach says, "sometimes you just need to pull harder."

[jamesg]

The Key is to use our legs at the catch. They are strong enough to accelerate our entire body mass to chain speed, in a very short time and distance.

It's up to us to do it without excessive force, so that the engagement of the freewheel is smooth and does not cause unwanted high impulse loads to our ribs etc.

This is just basic Newtonian Dynamics. And also basic rowing technique. Some coaches appear to have followed other studies.

[Noseve]

It's up to us to do it without excessive force, so that the engagement of the freewheel is smooth and does not cause unwanted high impulse loads to our ribs etc.

... which is the trick, of course.

I can imagine that if every stroke was of identical intensity, it would be possible to adopt the correct timing. Maybe this is it - my strokes must be varying intensity/stroke length/timing, which hopefully considered practice will help to minimise or overcome.

Do even high quality rowers experience the occasional jolt in any session, or is an entirely smooth workout a realistic ambition?

Thanks all for your thoughts - and Quatroux, I smile every time I read your signature!

[Quatroux]

Thanks all for your thoughts - and Quatroux, I smile every time I read your signature!

I do my best!

Also, I'd say if I see an athlete with a jolt at the catch at any rather below 35 or so.

[Noseve]

Also, I'd say if I see an athlete with a jolt at the catch at any rather below 35 or so.

was that sentence a result of your phone auto-correct? What did you mean to say?

[Ombrax]

Also, I'd say if I see an athlete with a jolt at the catch at any rather below 35 or so.

was that sentence a result of your phone auto-correct? What did you mean to say?

I'm pretty sure Q meant "at any [stroke] rate below 35 [strokes / minute] or so"

[Noseve]

Yes, Ombrax, I suspect you're right - but I wondered what he would say?

[Quatroux]

Also, I'd say if I see an athlete with a jolt at the catch at any rather below 35 or so.

was that sentence a result of your phone auto-correct? What did you mean to say?

Crazy as I think I used a real computer and keyboard for this. Anyway, you folks got it right. Common to see rowers rushing up to the catch fast enough that they introduce slack in the chain that is then ungracefully removed during the drive. Hope everyone had a great weekend.

[Noseve]

Common to see rowers rushing up to the catch fast enough that they introduce slack in the chain that is then ungracefully removed during the drive. Hope everyone had a great weekend.

yes, I think there's still an element of that - despite the 'eggshell' mindset that I mentioned earlier - in my action. Or at least a lack of compatibility between my drive and the timing of my recovery.

As for the weekend, I had a row in an old wooden gig, with fixed seats. Great fun, as different from a C2 as one could imagine. loved every minute.

[Quatroux]

As for the weekend, I had a row in an old wooden gig, with fixed seats. Great fun, as different from a C2 as one could imagine. loved every minute.

Cool experience. I finished up a learn to row camp. Got 8 kids introduced to the sport.