I have used a C2 at a gym (model C with PM2) and have some issues with it. Since my work is selling its gym, I am considering just buying an erg and skipping the gym as the new owners will probably charge 2 to 3x a month (and I have a bowflex for weight training. I doubt much if any maintenace is done on this machine unless it is broken. So here are some questions I have
1) feet strapes - Do these hold your feet down the entire time? The ones at work seem to work for 2-3 mins, then they loosen up and I have to stop and tighten them or my feet will start to hurt. I find this extremely annoying
2) Resistance - Is there normally no resistance during the portion of the row where your using your legs? The one at work doesn't, the chain is usually bouncing around and not taught at all until after your legs are fully extended. So I feel like I get zero exercise in my legs.
3) I have a spare PC and monitor to use with the machine - since this is the case, is the log card reader useless for me?
4) What should I buy with the rower, I was thinking extra strapes so I have a pair when they wear out but other than that what should I look at getting.
Just FYI I'm leaning towards a Model E with maybe a copy of rowpro
Thanks a bunch,
Howie
Questions about C2 rower
1) Many of us row with our feet out of the straps all the time for training and only use the straps for racing or high speed short distances. You probably should not have your feet tight all the time, so that would suggest you may want to improve your technique (like by rowing without the straps). But sometimes the straps can come loose and people have complained about that before with their C2s. People sometimes double tuck the straps to prevent this.
2) the resistance on the C2 is dependant on how fast you pull, so it is possible that you are just pulling slowly with your legs and not feeling it. That is the most likely possibility, and the remedy is to learn to explode more quickly out of the blocks to feel the resistance immediately with the legs.
3) yes, if you use rowpro. Is the gym erg a model d with the PM3 (and the log card)? That should be fairly new and in fairly good shape.
4) rowpro is great, I highly recommend it. I would get a used model D and have rowpro. I don't see any real benefit for the home user of a E over a D.
2) the resistance on the C2 is dependant on how fast you pull, so it is possible that you are just pulling slowly with your legs and not feeling it. That is the most likely possibility, and the remedy is to learn to explode more quickly out of the blocks to feel the resistance immediately with the legs.
3) yes, if you use rowpro. Is the gym erg a model d with the PM3 (and the log card)? That should be fairly new and in fairly good shape.
4) rowpro is great, I highly recommend it. I would get a used model D and have rowpro. I don't see any real benefit for the home user of a E over a D.
M 51 5'9'' (1.75m), a once and future lightweight
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13
Thanks for the reply,
I honestly don't know how to row without the straps. I have tried but I can't keep my feet on the machine as I pull right off. As I said before there is no resistance when using my legs as the chain is very slack and doesn't offer any resistance until its pulled futher back. I can definatly feel it in my arms/shoulders but nothing in my legs and I usually try for 28 or so rpm. So its not like I'm going really slow.
As for the gym machine, its an older C model with the PM2 monitor. So I think its pretty old.
I definatly want the PM4 monitor with the battery recharging system (USB or by rowing) I'm not much for buying used equipment, you just never know how well it was taken care of. But that is just me.
Howie
I honestly don't know how to row without the straps. I have tried but I can't keep my feet on the machine as I pull right off. As I said before there is no resistance when using my legs as the chain is very slack and doesn't offer any resistance until its pulled futher back. I can definatly feel it in my arms/shoulders but nothing in my legs and I usually try for 28 or so rpm. So its not like I'm going really slow.
As for the gym machine, its an older C model with the PM2 monitor. So I think its pretty old.
I definatly want the PM4 monitor with the battery recharging system (USB or by rowing) I'm not much for buying used equipment, you just never know how well it was taken care of. But that is just me.
Howie
-
johnlvs2run
- Half Marathon Poster
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 1:13 pm
- Location: California Central Coast
- Contact:
Re: Questions about C2 rower
I got a model B in 1993/4, used a model C for 2 years and sold it a few months ago, then got a new model D/pm3 a few weeks ago.
1) You can double loop the straps over, which is what I do, and they'll never come loose. Also, the straps last almost forever. I rowed around 24 million meters on the model B, at least 6 of those without straps, and the straps are still in very good condition. I have extra straps but have never had use for them.
2) The resistance is completely adjustable and also you can adjust the bungee. You won't have any problem having plenty of resistance.
3) I got a log card with the model D/pm3 and just leave it stuck in the monitor. You don't need a reader. If you want to transfer the log card to the computer you can plug the pm3 directly to the computer (or else get the reader). You can use the PC/monitor and the pm3 or 4 monitor at the same time no problem.
4) I think you don't need anything else with the rower, unless you get a set of slides. Everything is included for maintenance though, unless you just want some extra gadgets to play with, like the slides, or rowpro for use with computer.
1) You can double loop the straps over, which is what I do, and they'll never come loose. Also, the straps last almost forever. I rowed around 24 million meters on the model B, at least 6 of those without straps, and the straps are still in very good condition. I have extra straps but have never had use for them.
2) The resistance is completely adjustable and also you can adjust the bungee. You won't have any problem having plenty of resistance.
3) I got a log card with the model D/pm3 and just leave it stuck in the monitor. You don't need a reader. If you want to transfer the log card to the computer you can plug the pm3 directly to the computer (or else get the reader). You can use the PC/monitor and the pm3 or 4 monitor at the same time no problem.
4) I think you don't need anything else with the rower, unless you get a set of slides. Everything is included for maintenance though, unless you just want some extra gadgets to play with, like the slides, or rowpro for use with computer.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2
-
PaulS
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1212
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
- Location: Washington State, USA
- Contact:
Howie,
As long as you are avg to tall, you will like the E (I had a short person over to the house and it was a challenge for them to deal with the additional 6 inches in height.). Slides are a nice accessory (Adds about 2 inches in height of the seat, so keep that in mind.) as well as a CBreeze if you like to stay cooled while rowing.
As for the Strapless rowing, keep trying, learning that control will benefit the rest of your effort greatly.
As long as you are avg to tall, you will like the E (I had a short person over to the house and it was a challenge for them to deal with the additional 6 inches in height.). Slides are a nice accessory (Adds about 2 inches in height of the seat, so keep that in mind.) as well as a CBreeze if you like to stay cooled while rowing.
As for the Strapless rowing, keep trying, learning that control will benefit the rest of your effort greatly.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
-
PaulS
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1212
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
- Location: Washington State, USA
- Contact:
In the 5' range. They were purchasing my Model D that was being replaced by the E, the D was a much better seat height for them, with or without slides.Tyn wrote:Short person(s)??
How short where/was they/he??!
Smurf on!!
5'6 and up is what I think would be most comfortable with the E on the Ground. Shorter than that and the seat is pretty high, though it does force one to start nearer the front edge, as good thing overall since it's quite common for folks to sit too far back on the seat in general.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
-
Citroen
- SpamTeam
- Posts: 8064
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:28 pm
- Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Re: Questions about C2 rower
1. Before pulling the strap tight send the loose end back through the buckle. Pull tight with the loop that you form, then pull the slack end through the buckle. They won't come undone until you want to undo them that way.howie777 wrote: 1) feet strapes - Do these hold your feet down the entire time? The ones at work seem to work for 2-3 mins, then they loosen up and I have to stop and tighten them or my feet will start to hurt. I find this extremely annoying
2) Resistance - Is there normally no resistance during the portion of the row where your using your legs? The one at work doesn't, the chain is usually bouncing around and not taught at all until after your legs are fully extended. So I feel like I get zero exercise in my legs.
3) I have a spare PC and monitor to use with the machine - since this is the case, is the log card reader useless for me?
4) What should I buy with the rower, I was thinking extra strapes so I have a pair when they wear out but other than that what should I look at getting.
Just FYI I'm leaning towards a Model E with maybe a copy of rowpro
2. Clean the fan cage, it's probably full of dust and crud.
3. If you have a PC that can be set-up within a few feet (you get a long USB lead with the rower). You will not need the stand-alone card reader. (I use a card reader because the nearest rowing machine is 5Km away.)
4. The straps won't wear out with normal use for many years. You won't need a spare set.
Why an E and not a D? The D takes up less space (disassembles to a smaller space), weighs less, costs less and is more like the model C you've been using.
The E is really intended as an institutional machine (where they get treated badly and the straps wear out).
If you take the handle out of the rest and let it go, does it pull up tightly to the fan cage? If it doesn't do that, without you holding it, then the bungy assembly may be worn out or stretched. But I am not sure that really affects the resistance you feel when you pull the chain. The reason that you don't feel resistance in your legs is that you are pulling too "slow" with your legs. The faster/harder you pull, the more resistance you feel. You feel it in your arms and back because by that point in the stroke, you have enough speed in the flywheel to start feeling it.
Next time you row, pay attention to your pace, since that is what shows how "fast" you are rowing. It should be the big number in the middle of the display, expressed as time per 500 meters, so something like 2:30/m. the lower the number, the faster you are going. Your stroke rate of 28 is high, and many of us would recommend lowering that to 25 or lower.
That your feet are coming off at the end of the stroke when you are strapless, clearly suggests that you are off balance during the stroke, and you are losing that force that you are creating by pulling the chain when it is absorbed in the foot straps. Strapless rowing forces all of your energy into the handle.
good luck.
Next time you row, pay attention to your pace, since that is what shows how "fast" you are rowing. It should be the big number in the middle of the display, expressed as time per 500 meters, so something like 2:30/m. the lower the number, the faster you are going. Your stroke rate of 28 is high, and many of us would recommend lowering that to 25 or lower.
That your feet are coming off at the end of the stroke when you are strapless, clearly suggests that you are off balance during the stroke, and you are losing that force that you are creating by pulling the chain when it is absorbed in the foot straps. Strapless rowing forces all of your energy into the handle.
good luck.
M 51 5'9'' (1.75m), a once and future lightweight
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13
Well I went to the gym yesterday to row again. Here are my results
1) Feet straps, I did 10 mins with the straps just looped and had no issues with them coming off so that helped a lot. Just for kicks I unlooped them after a 10 min bike ride and did another 10 mins. With the new way I was rowing it wasn't as bad as before, but I still slipped into the old rowing and felt the straps strain against my feet.
2) I did the first part of the row with a lot more power. This helped keep my feet planted and put less stress against the straps. I think I could have not used straps and been ok. I did notice when I got lazy and reverted I felt strain against the straps again.
3) I took about 2 to 3 times on the return part of the row and brought down my pace from about 28 to 22. This was actually a lot harder than the old way I was rowing, but it took my 500m pace from about 4:30 to 4:10. So it helped alot there. In total I did 4600+ m in two 10 min sessions
Thanks for all the advice, I think it helped a ton. The only real issues I have left are my hands and fingers getting soar which I don't remember with the Model D I tried at another gym which has the newer style handle so I'm not worried about. And now that I have cash saved up, I don't want to part with it! LOL But I still need to wait a while yet before I get one. I still have 2 weeks before my works gym closes and we find out what is happening with the new oweners. If they keep it open at a good price I may just stick with the gym and wait until I get my own house to get a C2. Hopefully within the next 6 months that will happen.
Thanks again
Howie
1) Feet straps, I did 10 mins with the straps just looped and had no issues with them coming off so that helped a lot. Just for kicks I unlooped them after a 10 min bike ride and did another 10 mins. With the new way I was rowing it wasn't as bad as before, but I still slipped into the old rowing and felt the straps strain against my feet.
2) I did the first part of the row with a lot more power. This helped keep my feet planted and put less stress against the straps. I think I could have not used straps and been ok. I did notice when I got lazy and reverted I felt strain against the straps again.
3) I took about 2 to 3 times on the return part of the row and brought down my pace from about 28 to 22. This was actually a lot harder than the old way I was rowing, but it took my 500m pace from about 4:30 to 4:10. So it helped alot there. In total I did 4600+ m in two 10 min sessions
Thanks for all the advice, I think it helped a ton. The only real issues I have left are my hands and fingers getting soar which I don't remember with the Model D I tried at another gym which has the newer style handle so I'm not worried about. And now that I have cash saved up, I don't want to part with it! LOL But I still need to wait a while yet before I get one. I still have 2 weeks before my works gym closes and we find out what is happening with the new oweners. If they keep it open at a good price I may just stick with the gym and wait until I get my own house to get a C2. Hopefully within the next 6 months that will happen.
Thanks again
Howie
-
Citroen
- SpamTeam
- Posts: 8064
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:28 pm
- Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
I can't believe you're rowing that slowly.howie777 wrote: This was actually a lot harder than the old way I was rowing, but it took my 500m pace from about 4:30 to 4:10. So it helped alot there. In total I did 4600+ m in two 10 min sessions
There's a major technique issue if you think it's hard but you're only getting a 4 minute pace.
If you got 4600m rowed in 20 minutes of rowing you're getting a pace of 2:10.4.
Are you sure you're reading the numbers right? The performance monitor can show watts, calories or pace (time for 500m).
My first response was going to be I'm fat, but then I noticed the dispartiy. I was running 1000m at about 4:10 not 500m. I wasn't going by the monitors number for 500m, I have no idea why though, that is less work. Also, I probably did a bit more than 20 mins, I think the monitor showed about 2:10 for the first 10 mins, and 2:12 or so on the second half.
Howie
Howie