low spm

rlholtz · Post by **rlholtz** » May 24th, 2006, 3:59 pm

I know many have a problem getting their rates down, but I have a problem getting my rate up. If, for instance, I were to do a 2K I might rate around a 25. Is that necessarily bad? And what might that suggest about my technique and potential for continued improvement? In case anyone is wondering, I row on a B, fan entirely closed up, inside sprocket.

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » May 24th, 2006, 4:08 pm

Try making a speed ring out of black roofing paper, and attach it to the side of the erg with plastic ties.

Also, get a metronome, and gradually up your rating during training.

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » May 24th, 2006, 4:22 pm

Hi rlholt

I devolped about the same problem by rowing S10spm,

Can't speed up the rate!

I've got the power,
Not the rate,

same problem,
no answer, sorry
still having the problem and no metronome!

You can't hear the darn thing with a B anyway!

Hope you get a real good answer!
you're not the only one!!

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » May 24th, 2006, 5:50 pm

Tyn wrote:Hi rlholt

I devolped about the same problem by rowing S10spm,

Can't speed up the rate!

Most will complain that S10PS doesn't let you do any "low rate" work, which it does in fact limit somewhat. Your linking it to not being able to get your rate up is rather strange, and likely incorrect.

What do you consider a high rate, and how high did you have in mind of trying?

At what rate did you do your 500m PB?

rlholtz - WHat paces are your rowing at your R25? Without knowing that it is difficult to know if you are really "low rate" or not.

Neb154 · Post by **Neb154** » May 24th, 2006, 10:02 pm

Low rates are good for training pieces to build stregnth, especially over longer rows. However, for PB attempts, especially for shorter distances like a 2k, a 25 is fairly low. Most of the rowers on my team go at around 28-32.

torpedo · Post by **torpedo** » May 24th, 2006, 10:20 pm

John Rupp wrote:Try making a speed ring out of black roofing paper, and attach it to the side of the erg with plastic ties.

Also, get a metronome, and gradually up your rating during training.

Speed Ring? How does this work? Details?

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » May 24th, 2006, 11:31 pm

A speed ring is a 2 inch wide circular strip that goes around the side of the erg. I made one first from black roofing paper. The one in the picture is with rubber from a discarded truck tire innertube, and also goes around the perimeter.

rlholtz · Post by **rlholtz** » May 25th, 2006, 10:00 am

PaulS wrote:

rlholtz - WHat paces are your rowing at your R25? Without knowing that it is difficult to know if you are really "low rate" or not.

Paul S

Right now, for a 2K, about 1:48ish. A little more background: I’ve only done a 2K twice in my life, one about 2 months ago (7:22) and one a week ago (7:14). Both I started conservatively and negative split, though I upped the effort on the second one having more knowledge of what I was capable of. I started rowing about a year ago (~50K/week) after 20 years of running. A shattered wrist and then a knee injury (meniscus tears and a little arthritis) put an end to that. I was a lightweight up until these injuries and am trying to work my way back down to one. I’ll be 50 soon, am 5’11”, and have a pretty good “ape factor” based on a response of yours from not too long ago. I appreciate your advice.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » May 25th, 2006, 12:10 pm

rlholtz wrote:PaulS wrote:

rlholtz - WHat paces are your rowing at your R25? Without knowing that it is difficult to know if you are really "low rate" or not.

Paul S

Right now, for a 2K, about 1:48ish. A little more background: I’ve only done a 2K twice in my life, one about 2 months ago (7:22) and one a week ago (7:14). Both I started conservatively and negative split, though I upped the effort on the second one having more knowledge of what I was capable of. I started rowing about a year ago (~50K/week) after 20 years of running. A shattered wrist and then a knee injury (meniscus tears and a little arthritis) put an end to that. I was a lightweight up until these injuries and am trying to work my way back down to one. I’ll be 50 soon, am 5’11”, and have a pretty good “ape factor” based on a response of yours from not too long ago. I appreciate your advice.

Well, if 1:48 R25 is what you are doing for the 2k, the rate is a bit low. Having not seen your stroke I'll make the best guess that I can. It is common for self taught folks to develop a fairly long pause at the finish of the drive, and this makes the recovery take longer to accomplish. The first thing to try would be strapless Erging to make sure that you are finishing the stroke balanced and can then keep the handle moving right around the finish in a smooth and continuous manner.

The body must then be recovered, and this is done by pivoting at the hips, using the same muscles that we all use when pivoting forward just be standing from a chair. They are quite natural to engage for standing up, but will require some concentration to get them working for body recovery. We also do not stand from a chair hundreds of times over 30 minutes, so they will tire quite quickly and have to adapt just like any other muscle.

Give that a try over some of your training sessions and report back with the types of rate/pace combinations that you are able to accomplish for your steady state rows of 30 minutes or more.

rlholtz · Post by **rlholtz** » May 25th, 2006, 4:03 pm

So...based on what I've said, do you think sub-7 is a realistic target?

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » May 25th, 2006, 8:36 pm

rlholtz wrote:So...based on what I've said, do you think sub-7 is a realistic target?

Very realistic.

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » May 26th, 2006, 10:33 am

PaulS wrote:
Tyn wrote:Hi rlholt

I devolped about the same problem by rowing S10spm,

Can't speed up the rate!

Most will complain that S10PS doesn't let you do any "low rate" work, which it does in fact limit somewhat. Your linking it to not being able to get your rate up is rather strange, and likely incorrect.

What do you consider a high rate, and how high did you have in mind of trying?

At what rate did you do your 500m PB?

rlholtz - WHat paces are your rowing at your R25? Without knowing that it is difficult to know if you are really "low rate" or not.

Hi Paul,

for rowing S10mps, I had to bring my Sr down!
I did , for example, 2:00@27
So I had to slow down and got to bring more power into my drive!

Worked pretty well!

But sometimes when I get tired it was more easy to rate up! I find that more difficult now!

You call that trtading rate for pace?

I searched my Logs for my rate on the PB but couldn't find it, but it must be around 32/34.

Happy Rowing!

rlholtz · Post by **rlholtz** » May 26th, 2006, 10:55 am

Might graduating from a B to a D automatically up one's rate given the lower potential drag factor?

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » May 26th, 2006, 12:23 pm

rlholtz wrote:Might graduating from a B to a D automatically up one's rate given the lower potential drag factor?

If you close the vents on the B fully, and use the large sprocket, your drive time will not change so significantly as to have that effect.

A change in rate is mostly due to a change in recovery time rather than drive time, and the recovery procedure will be very close on both models, though I think the slope of the rail is slightly greater on the D, which would give a slight assist.

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » May 26th, 2006, 3:00 pm

Simply installing a home made speed ring will give you similar resistances on the B, as on the C or the D.