noob questions

[Harry94]

Hi,

I am a 31 year old male, 6'2'' 220lbs (188, 100kg). I think I'm borderline overweight to obese. I've been playing tennis for 2 years and my weight has been fluctuating wildly over that time period. My plan is to row 4-5/ week and and maybe play tennis twice.

Yesterday I rowed at a pace of 2:42 for 26 minutes(DF 145, spm28). Today while trying to find what the average pace and distance(per session) is for a complete beginner. I came across this: https://rowinglevel.com/rowing-times/30-minutes He shows estimates of average times and distances for all ages and genders. From ages 10 to 90 years old, for beginners novices, up to elite athletes. According to this guy my pace and distance was the equivalent of a 10 year old or 85 year old beginner. Roughly. He also shows that 30-35 years of ager males reach peak performance while 25 years is peak for females. I thought that peak physical performance was between the ages of 20-25, especially for males. In any sport. I tried to improve on my second session today and I rowed for 30 minutes at a pace of 2:27(DF 112, spm25). I spent more than 50% of my time in zones 4 and 5 (metrics from watch rather than chest strap, which I'm planning to buy soon). The metrics are probably somewhat inaccurate, but still. This got me seriously worried about my health.

My plan was to focus on form for the first few weeks and not worry about pace at all. I think I should not be spending much time, during a session, with heart rates that are higher than 155bmp, especially while trying something new. I was uncomfortable with my pace today and am planning to drop pace to a more comfortable and sustainable level.This guy says that the average beginner male aged 30 should cover a distance of 6600m+ in a 30 min session and sustain a pace of 2:15 on day 1. So I should either see a doctor asap or ignore him or I'm misreading his estimates somehow. Please advise. What is an average pace for beginners, my age? Should I be rowing for 30 minutes consistently 4-5/per week?

Thanks

[Citroen]

Have you noticed that rowing is a legs sport, it's not a haul everything with your arms.
The sequence is catch (the flywheel), drive (with the big muscles in your legs), finish (with the arms), recover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBvHK0M ... l=UCanRow2

[Harry94]

Thank you for the video. It's very helpful.
I'll on technique and not so much on pace and heart rate for at least a few weeks. I probably came at this wrong. I used to be a runner for a while during my early 20s and forgot that I am a complete beginner in this. And hence my attention should not be too much on zones and times spent in each.

[p_b82]

Hi,

I am a 31 year old male, 6'2'' 220lbs (188, 100kg). I think I'm borderline overweight to obese. I've been playing tennis for 2 years and my weight has been fluctuating wildly over that time period. My plan is to row 4-5/ week and and maybe play tennis twice.

Yesterday I rowed at a pace of 2:42 for 26 minutes(DF 145, spm28). Today while trying to find what the average pace and distance(per session) is for a complete beginner. I came across this: https://rowinglevel.com/rowing-times/30-minutes He shows estimates of average times and distances for all ages and genders. From ages 10 to 90 years old, for beginners novices, up to elite athletes. According to this guy my pace and distance was the equivalent of a 10 year old or 85 year old beginner. Roughly. He also shows that 30-35 years of ager males reach peak performance while 25 years is peak for females. I thought that peak physical performance was between the ages of 20-25, especially for males. In any sport. I tried to improve on my second session today and I rowed for 30 minutes at a pace of 2:27(DF 112, spm25). I spent more than 50% of my time in zones 4 and 5 (metrics from watch rather than chest strap, which I'm planning to buy soon). The metrics are probably somewhat inaccurate, but still. This got me seriously worried about my health.

My plan was to focus on form for the first few weeks and not worry about pace at all. I think I should not be spending much time, during a session, with heart rates that are higher than 155bmp, especially while trying something new. I was uncomfortable with my pace today and am planning to drop pace to a more comfortable and sustainable level.This guy says that the average beginner male aged 30 should cover a distance of 6600m+ in a 30 min session and sustain a pace of 2:15 on day 1. So I should either see a doctor asap or ignore him or I'm misreading his estimates somehow. Please advise. What is an average pace for beginners, my age? Should I be rowing for 30 minutes consistently 4-5/per week?

Thanks

Firstly congrats on getting on the erg and your first session being 20+ minutes - I only managed 10 before I was gassed out; so to do 30mins at a much faster pace on attempt 2 is admirable.

You're right to focus on technique and ignore pace - spend the first few days/weeks/months finding what is your "sweet spot" in terms of drag factor and rating.

These will become obvious as you find you can settle into a rhythm and the whole stroke feels comfortable, and repeatable with consistency. (the force curve on the pm5 can be very helpful in keeping your technique smooth and the sequencing correct as it plots the shape of your stroke in real time)

watch some videos on form - and practice the sequence - correct posture and form now is much easier to correct before your muscle memory bakes in any bad habits. (maybe video yourself and compare or get next to a mirror so you can see yourself in real time - we all have some variation from "perfect" but not being in weak positions is the more important factor)

I'd disconnect your ego in regards to comparisons to others at this stage - rowing fitness is not directly comparable to many other activities, and until your body starts to adapt and your form improves you will be a lot slower than you might wish for.

You will make huge gains in the first year though if you keep getting on the erg even 3 times a week - I went from 10mins to a half marathon (1.5+hrs) in 6 months and a FM (3+hrs) within 18months myself.

your height/weight combo puts your in the overweight uk bmi range and at the upper end of it - but that doesn't really tell the whole story - if you've got a fair amount of extra natural padding, then I think you've answered your own question re-your actual physical shape, but it's unlikely you're in "rush to the dr" position; only you can make that call though - and if you're worried then book a checkup.

You will probably struggle to do 5 sessions a week initially - in terms of recovery - especially if you're trying to push the pace, so I'd follow the "increment distance/pace" by 10% a week to build up to things; either via 5 short sessions, or 2/3 longer ones. I'd advise trying to do both at the same time initially.

Once you've got yourself a bit more settled, then you might want to look at following a plan with some structure - if that's what you prefer - or just keep doing things as you feel like it. knowing your goals and how you enjoy things will likely help you decide what route you take going forwards.

I have a high revving heart - more like a bike engine than a big capacity diesel - and so I often spend 90% my time in zone 4 and into zone 5; you'll find out though your experience and as your fitness improves where your natural hr will settle on the easier & harder pieces - its worth looking at it as a guide, but not your only training metric (and in isolation to your actually observed max HR it's not all that useful a banding anyway if it's completely out of alignment).

[iain]

Yesterday I rowed at a pace of 2:42 for 26 minutes(DF 145, spm28).

Good that you realised that this rate was too high. You were using far too high a proportion of your energy propelling your weight up and down the rail for which you get no credit from the PM. Also good you lowered the DF. Most people have some muscles that need to get used to the demands of rowing and this is easier on a lower DF. Too high and poor form increases likelihood of injury.

Today while trying to find what the average pace and distance(per session) is for a complete beginner. I came across this: ... According to this guy my pace and distance was the equivalent of a 10 year old or 85 year old

Don't know this site, but pace is critically dependent on the quality of your rowing stroke. As such beginners cannot be compared like this as the result will demonstrate how good technique is as much as how fit you are. Many people on the forum cannot even manage 30 min when they start and often go slower over 2k, so I would not be concerned. I suspect that the data really refers to how far people could row with good form!

He also shows that 30-35 years of ager males reach peak performance while 25 years is peak for females.

Not come across this and also surprised. I suspect that the data on which this is based may be unrepresentative. I suspect a higher proportion of elite women are prepared to share their data and possibly a lower proportion of weaker women in their 20s. Many elite men will have ambitions to progress to the highest level and will jealously guard their results from scrutiny while continuing t try and train optimally to achieve this (and therefore continuing to progress). It may also be cultural in that less women may be willing to devote the time to training (and recovery) post university than men.

There is a long standing debate re masters athletes. How much of the performance reductions are about training sub-optimally and how much inevitable age driven decline. Just because people get slower does not mean that their potential has decreased at this rate.

I rowed for 30 minutes at a pace of 2:27(DF 112, spm25). I spent more than 50% of my time in zones 4 and 5

Congratulations, 34% increase in average power and 50% increase in work per stroke is huge. Given your stats, I suspect that there are significant improvements in your stroke that will yield significant additional performance gains.

re the "zones" these are only meaningful if you know your maximum HR and even then the formulas are approximate. Someone who is unfit has a low stroke volume and so is not working their hearts as much as the heart rate suggests (blood pumped is the measure of the work of the heart which is stroke volume x heart rate). So it is normal to reach a higher proportion of max when starting out. But for regular workouts you should probably not be exceeding 90% more than a couple of times a week.

My plan was to focus on form for the first few weeks and not worry about pace at all

Great plan. Essential to learn to row first. Inefficiencies will get increasingly hard to improve so should be the first focus for all new rowers. Later you would develop compensating inefficiencies that would need to be unlearned and doing so would lead tro times getting slower before they can improve. This is also where your greatest gains at the moment will come.

I look forward to reading about your continued progress.

[Nomark]

Welcome to the forum! Well done for starting. I am also a beginner in a similar boat to you, a few months down the line. What you have inadvertently discovered is that there is a difference between steady state rowing and all out time trials.

Steady state is a pace that you can still carry a conversation at. This is probably the bulk of most people's training and very good for fitness gains. If you are anything like me you may doubt this as I have an ingrained no pain, no gain mindset which I am trying to overcome. But it's true! Don't worry about pace. As with anything consistency is key. You seem fairly attuned to your abilities and already recognize that if you try and maintain the pace from your second attempt you won't have the desire or willpower to do this 3,4,5 times a week. The best pace is one that you can keep coming back to as you will be in far better shape doing this for 6 months then going all out for a week or 2 and giving up.

Time trails will have you falling off the machine and aren't particularly necessary, but as you discovered you can up your pace if you had to and could probably approach the times listed if you went all out, but, again, no need to prove this!

I would caution you against doing too much too soon. As pb82 says, 20 and 30 minute sessions are very impressive to start with. You will be using muscles in a way that you haven't used before so just be wary of aches and pains in the first few weeks. Personally I did a few 1,000m when I started before a slowish 5k. I'd recommend that you keep it at 20-30 minutes max for a few weeks before you attempt any longer distances, and ease off if under developed muscles are asking you to. 10-15mins is still useful while you build up tolerance if you need to cut back the metres a little some days. Have a look into interval training as well, maybe once a week as well to complement your training and stop things getting boring.

Your plan to focus on form sounds ideal.
If you want something more structured look on the training forum at the Beginners Pete Plan thread. It's a 24 week program that a few of us fellow newbies are doing and there is a wealth of information on the thread.

[reuben]

Greetings from another newbie (almost 3 months).

Drag factor - I believe that 100-120 is normal. If I'm wrong I'm sure that someone will correct me. This is probably a 3-5 setting on the damper.

Technique rules - legs, hips, arms. Don't sacrifice technique for pace, watts, spm, ego, or anything else. Not yet, anyway. I went so far as individual pick drills, working on each segment, then putting them together. As someone mentioned above, the force curve can reveal issues (I still tend to have at least one). There are lots of good videos on technique. Some break it down, others are more holistic. Both approaches are good. I used one of these to help learn technique, and it wouldn't hurt me to review again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LperycNwlFw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ykhggcbJrY

Common errors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP6OR-G7AxM

SPM - my steady state rows are 19-20. I believe that 22 or less is recommended.

Work load - It's a balance. Don't overdo it. You need to recover. If you're injured or overly fatigued (resting heart rate unusually high) you're not improving anything. 20-30 minutes of steady state rowing with good technique 3-5 times per week is a great place to start. Shorter or fewer sessions as necessary.

[Citroen]

Drag factor - I believe that 100-120 is normal. If I'm wrong I'm sure that someone will correct me. This is probably a 3-5 setting on the damper.

That's a good starting point.

[Dangerscouse]

Some great advice so far, and I'd honestly just enjoy it for the moment, fully understand the technique and let your body adapt to the general stresses and strains of rowing, which are significantly different to running and tennis.

As you've seen, progress can be very quick and I'm very hesistant to suggest starting paces for anybody, which can easily be detrimental rather than helpful. What's more important is where you are in the next few months of good quality and dedicated training.

[jamesg]

31 year old male, 6'2'' 220lbs (188, 100kg)
Yesterday I rowed at a pace of 2:42 for 26 minutes(DF 145, spm28).

So well done, you're off to a good start. 2:42 is 80W and at a fit weight of around 80kg, 1W/kg.

At rate 28, 80W/28 = 3W-min per stroke.

Both those numbers (1W/kg and stroke 3W') need to be doubled, but it'll be a long job. Probably your weight (BMI = 100/1.88² = 28) gets in the way of a long stroke. However a long hard stroke is what's needed to do any work when rowing.

So keep at it and lose weight.