Open Letter To The Indoor Rowing Community

Stretch · Post by **Stretch** » March 27th, 2006, 9:01 pm

I'm in on the making nice.

Not giving up swearing, though.

Ducatista · Post by **Ducatista** » March 27th, 2006, 9:03 pm

FrankJ wrote:Perhaps the pledge should be part of the registration process.

Heavens no! Most message boards benefit from the occasional round of dope-slaps administered to repeat offenders. But any forum I've seen subjected to a systemic etiquette crackdown has emerged the worse for it. All sugar and no spice makes for a pretty damn dull read, IMO. Though I think the pledge is a fine option for those who swing that way.

Sasha · Post by **Sasha** » March 27th, 2006, 9:26 pm

Thanks Ducatista for speaking for me.

I was beginning to feel waaaay pressured, partially because I'm such a newbie. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who feels that way. And there is something about the notion of the loyalty oath that doesn't set well with me.

GeorgeD · Post by **GeorgeD** » March 27th, 2006, 10:29 pm

A question that people need to ask themselves is what do they visit these forums for. Having tried to start a number of threads to discuss 'things rowing' and seeing them generally die with just a few of the same contributors wading in then I think the forums are just more of a social venue. A place for social interaction rather than discussion on the physical or mental aspects of Indoor rowing. That being the case then you better be prepared to accept all sorts of people and behaviour, if you are offended by some of it then 'dont go out in public'.

The motivation and sentiment of this thread is a fine thing (as was the one on the UK forum that has now gone 'out the window') The only way things will change will be either thru strong moderation (and C2 will not do that) or by people taking responsibility for their own behaviour .... I just dont see that a public assertion of that fact is going to do it, and my experiences of human behaviour would tend to support that opinion.

George

fish · Post by **fish** » March 28th, 2006, 12:35 am

Perhaps George is right. Getting a bunch of people together will result in some nasty fights. And maybe part of that is being called an idiot when someone doesn't agree with you.

It's too bad we can't all get together and share our similarities and our differences. A healthy debate is one thing. Abuse is another.

At the moment, this forum seems to thrive on abuse. Perhaps the PB, the training ideas and the support just aren't that important.

I sorry, abuse isn't my style. I come here for the "rowing things" as well as inspiration. Maybe I don't belong in "public".

Arlene

Nightrower · Post by **Nightrower** » March 28th, 2006, 2:44 am

I agree and have myself stopped posting for the past 2 or 3 months due to the same. I became afraid that I would be attacked for no reason.
I think it was Citroen (sorry if I misspelled your name) who told me to ignore the troll.

For the record:

I pledge that I will be as supportive and positive on this Forum as possible. I will help others, as others have been of inestimable help to me. I will continue to speak my mind, nonconfrontationally. I will try to avoid contributing to troll threads and gratutious disputes, however innocently. And when I read something that I feel warrants censure, I will no longer sit on my hands. I will ask the party/parties involved to desist, preferably privately, and when the situation warrants it I will bring my reasoned concerns privately to the Forum moderators. Above all, I respect and uplift the rights, dignity, questions, thoughts, answers, performances, and capabilities of others, so as to keep the Forum the wonderful virtual community it should be

Darren

dutchcan · Post by **dutchcan** » March 28th, 2006, 2:49 am

Being a newcomer myself, I can understand where that 10 yr old is coming from. A pity, because after only a month on here, I've received invaluable advice that has basically changed how I approach this sport.

Therefore:

I pledge that I will be as supportive and positive on this Forum as possible. I will help others, as others have been of inestimable help to me. I will continue to speak my mind, nonconfrontationally. I will try to avoid contributing to troll threads and gratuitous disputes, however innocently. And when I read something that I feel warrants censure, I will no longer sit on my hands. I will ask the party/parties involved to desist, preferably privately, and when the situation warrants it I will bring my reasoned concerns privately to the Forum moderators. Above all, I respect and uplift the rights, dignity, questions, thoughts, answers, performances, and capabilities of others, so as to keep the Forum the wonderful virtual community it should be.

hjs · Post by **hjs** » March 28th, 2006, 6:53 am

Although I do understand the purpuse and meaning of this thread I will not pledge.

I am a firm believer in the freedom off speech. This means that we also have to tolerate the meaning and talk of does, who we don,t agree with.
If you don,t want to hear this just ignore or ask If someone will stop what he/she is doing.

As a hole is it just a few threads where the heat gets things boiling sometimes. And if that doesn't suit you you can always move to N Korea and find out if that system does work for you.

niall · Post by **niall** » March 28th, 2006, 8:22 am

NavigationHazard wrote:
I pledge that I will be as supportive and positive on this Forum as possible. I will help others, as others have been of inestimable help to me. I will continue to speak my mind, nonconfrontationally. I will try to avoid contributing to troll threads and gratutious disputes, however innocently. And when I read something that I feel warrants censure, I will no longer sit on my hands. I will ask the party/parties involved to desist, preferably privately, and when the situation warrants it I will bring my reasoned concerns privately to the Forum moderators. Above all, I respect and uplift the rights, dignity, questions, thoughts, answers, performances, and capabilities of others, so as to keep the Forum the wonderful virtual community it should be.

Jon Bone/ NavigationHazard

Jon,

You are an inspiration both on and off the ergo. Many thanks for highlighting this. I've been away from the forum quite a bit recently so wasn't aware of the exiting 10 year-old. That really is a very sad state of affairs when the future of our sport is being de-motivated to that extent. We are all accountable for this and I feel very sad indeed for our sport.

You have my full and absolute support.

Chad Williams · Post by **Chad Williams** » March 28th, 2006, 8:48 am

It is sad to see that some people are trying to restrict the art of debate on public forums. I have never once sworn on this forum, I have just posted information that is free to view on the internet by anyone that wants to go and find it

With regards to the 10 year old boy, should you be 14 years of age to use this forum?
Dwayne was wrong to use the language he did yesterday; there is never any need for an outburst like that.

I will not stop posting information I feel is important for people to know, you can choose to read it or not, you can choose to reply to it or not.

I tend to stick to 1 or 2 topics on the forum, you have your “pat each other on the backs” thread, but everyone is welcome to come and debate rowing issues with me, I will be where the second class forum poster hangs out, who does not follow self imposed guidelines by a self nominated forum leader.

All just my opinion of course

niall · Post by **niall** » March 28th, 2006, 9:39 am

We are not committing to any restriction in free speech as along as it is constructive and supportive. Confrontational posts don't help anyone.

Let's help each other progress with our goals and challenges in the sport that we have a common interest in.

Ducatista · Post by **Ducatista** » March 28th, 2006, 10:27 am

niall wrote:We are not committing to any restriction in free speech as along as it is constructive and supportive.

"Free speech" and "as long as it is [whatever I deem proper]" don't go together.

Still, I wouldn't expect unfettered free speech on a privately owned message board. A little tact is a good thing. So is the ability to handle tactless or confrontational posts. Better yet is an appreciation for their entertainment value. I don't think that's something you can pledge into existence, though.

fish · Post by **fish** » March 28th, 2006, 11:30 am

This was inappropriate. Sorry

Alissa · Post by **Alissa** » March 28th, 2006, 12:59 pm

Well, here’s where we are so far:

I pledge that I will be as supportive and positive on this Forum as possible. I will help others, as others have been of inestimable help to me. I will continue to speak my mind, nonconfrontationally. I will try to avoid contributing to troll threads and gratutious disputes, however innocently. And when I read something that I feel warrants censure, I will no longer sit on my hands. I will ask the party/parties involved to desist, preferably privately, and when the situation warrants it I will bring my reasoned concerns privately to the Forum moderators. Above all, I respect and uplift the rights, dignity, questions, thoughts, answers, performances, and capabilities of others, so as to keep the Forum the wonderful virtual community it should be.

Jon Bone/ NavigationHazard
Alissa Sandin/Alissa
Francois Audet
Tyn
Tim McTighe/ TPMcT
Hennie Martini
David Alden/ eyespliced
Dwayne Adams/dadams
kinley
David A
Arlene/fish
Frank/FrankJ
Stretch
Darren/Nightrower
dutchcan
niall

Note that this is not a loyalty oath. It’s not required of forum members. As George said, things change when people take responsibility for their own behaviour. I think that’s what this is about. The pledge some of us have made is to behave in accordance with some aspriational statements which Jon wrote (thanks Jon!). Those of us who liked what we saw signed on. If you don’t agree, then, of course, you shouldn’t sign on.

Note that none of these statements would limit “freedom of speech” or suggest that we shouldn’t “tolerate” the speech of others. However this statement suggests that those of us signing on have decided that we will use our “freedom of speech” to support the efforts of others (rather than to tear them down or to make it more difficult to reach their goals). We will speak our minds, but nonconfrontationally. And that each of us will attempt to resolve issues (if any) which we individually identify as “warranting censure”* in a non-confrontational way (preferably privately) or through a moderator.

As I read through the posts on this thread, it occured to me that some of the discussion may be based on a misunderstanding of the word "censure", so just in case that's the case, I've added a note below on the possible misunderstanding...

*Note: Those of you who read “censure” (the act of blaming or condeming sternly) to be the same as “censorship” (the act or practice of an official who reviews materials for objectionable content) may have thought (wrongly) that those of us signing on were asking for or promoting censorship. We weren’t.

For those who choose to join us in these aspirations, copy the statement & the signators and add your own...

Alissa

Sasha · Post by **Sasha** » March 28th, 2006, 1:47 pm

Note that this is not a loyalty oath. It’s not required of forum members.

I understand that. I was (probably obliquely) responding to the suggestion that signing such a statement be made a requirement for board access. I'm sorry I wasn't clear.

And to be crystal clear, I may join your aspirations and even your behavioral goals without signing a statement to that effect. I am old enough to remember the Army McCarthy Hearings. They left a profound imprint on me.

Concept2 Forum

Open Letter To The Indoor Rowing Community

Re: Open Letter To The Indoor Rowing Community