Concept2 Forum

just started using a rower last week...nvr rowed or been in a boat before.
i forget what i rowed last week, the first time i did it but i was alot fresher than i was tonight.
LAst week was mid 1:20's and tonght i rowed a 1:29.8 w/ an average of 484 watts.
This was post bi/back workout w/ a 2000 meter warmup rowed @ 9:16
I also did heavy squats 400+lbs for reps yesterday so my legs were dead tired..
Just wondering if those #'s are worth a piss

To see the range of times for various distances go to "online world ranking" under "online tools" on the main C2 website. 1:30 is pretty good for just getting started!

1:23.5 will get me in the top 50? Thats nuts.
Two weeks and fresh legs and i can row that.
Thx for the advice and refrence, much appreciated.

mealticket wrote:Just wondering if those #'s are worth a piss

Your PM3/PM4 monitor is configured wrong.

You have a monitor configured for a model B/C rower mounted on a model D/E rower. That gets the screwy results you're seeing.

From the main menu choose More Options --> Utilities --> LCD Contrast

Once on the LCD Contrast menu press [CHANGE UNITS] three times then press [CHANGE DISPLAY] three times and a hidden menu appears. Change the rower model to have the correct type and choose the OK tick button.

That will change the results your seeing and brimg them back into the normal ball park.

thats quite an audacious statement to imply that it is in no way concievable that i can put up those kind of numbers and that the only way they are feasable is that the meter is wrong
the meter im using is a pm-2..not a 3or4.
But thx for the input regardless

MT

mealticket wrote:thats quite an audacious statement to imply that it is in no way concievable that i can put up those kind of numbers and that the only way they are feasable is that the meter is wrong
the meter im using is a pm-2..not a 3or4.
But thx for the input regardless

MT

I don't do squats but 400# sounds like a lot to me so I would not be at all surprised that you are that strong. What is perhaps more surprising is that you just got on the rower and your technique is good enough to do do a sub 1:30 500m. I certainly can't come close (but I might beat you in a 10K or a half marathon).
However if you are just starting forget about the time for now and make sure you learn to row well. Video tape yourself and get some coaching to make sure you are not developing bad habits. IT takes a really long time to break a bad habit.

mealticket wrote:thats quite an audacious statement to imply that it is in no way concievable that i can put up those kind of numbers and that the only way they are feasable is that the meter is wrong
the meter im using is a pm-2..not a 3or4.
But thx for the input regardless

MT

For a strong fit man it is perfectly possible to pull a sub 1.30 500 without training on the rower. So keep on rowing, if you can do this to start with you have good potential.

MT - as mentioned by others, seems like you have lots of strength and it shows in your 500m time. Assume your plan for use of the erg is to improve endurance, not strength.

There is a useful rule of thumb called 'Paul's Law' that relates pace over different distances and shows your relative balance between power and endurance. It says: For every doubling of distance, add 5 seconds to your s/500m pace.

If your pace is 1:30 for 500m, a pace of 1:35 for 1K (3:10 total duration) would be expected. For the 2K distance, a pace of 1:40 (6:40 total duration) and so on as distances go up. Conversely, a 250m pace should be 1:25 (0:42.5 total duration).

If you are mathematically inclined, the formula is:
Pace2 = Pace1 + 5*log2(Distance2/Distance1)
Pace is in seconds, Distance is in metres.

Paul's Law is not universally applicable or agreed upon, but is a decent indicator for someone establishing a baseline and figuring out where to focus.

In my case, my current 2K reference time is 6:49.6 (1:42.4), which suggests I should be able to do 500m in 1:32.4. In reality, my best 500m time is 1:33.6. This suggests I would benefit more from incremental strength work.

One point of caution, though. I have not prepared for a 500m piece as thoroughly as I have for a 2K piece. That may account for some of the difference.

This also applies to records more generally. The majority of erg competitions are at the 2K distance. As a result, 2K records are the most competitive and the field is deepest in this distance. The number of really competitive times at other distances is quite a bit smaller.

Look forward to hearing about your progress.

Cheers. Patrick.

Thx for all the POSATIVE feedback.
I have no desire to row competatively but am now interested in going to some races in jan/feb and seeing how i fare against others.
I rowerd 127.2 yesterday @ either 514-518 watts, cant remember.
I took video of it but my card likes to dunformat itself so ill have to take another one next week and i'll be sure to post the link.
MY g/f use to row, thats why i wanted to see how well i could do, and said that my form for just beginning is pretty good but i drop my head alot, which she says would cause unstability in the boat....like i said i've never been in a boat...oi.k... well the last one i was in had twin 454's....but you get the point.
ill stick to my normal gym routine and throw some erg efforts in there to mix it up but can't train for it right now as it would complictae the other things i have on my plate.

I promise you for each 500 i rowed thereafter, like the one guy said; add 5 seconds....i'd have to add ALOT more than that.
I'd honestly be surprised if i could rom 7-7:30 in the 2000meter.
I'm as close to ALL fast twitch as you can get.....all anerobic enigine here.
.
...like i said b4..thx for the feedback and when i post the video i'm sure the slandering will start....as i can only imagine how poor my form is compared to someone who rows regularlly...
I might do a 1000 next week just to see, i dont know if i feel like hurting that bad.
I've always been a sprinter and honestly don't think i'd be a contender in anything over 500meters but we';; give it a shot and see what happens.
I know on the track 1k is my limit and am deff not a persuit athlete

anyone gonna be @ the indoor races in st louis, chicago or salt lake?

Many of us row the longer, regular distances and focus on those. So the 500m is a thrash we might do for fun. Even doing the 1000m seems like a lot, lot longer than the 500m.

So your 500m times are good. You will get faster. Don't hurt yourself doing this either, although those squats sound tough too. Just to give you an idea of what possibly the fastest sprinter in the world looks like, check out this thread and video:

http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... =2&t=17803

Watts increase nonlinearly, so to go from a 1:25 pace to a 1:10 pace, you will have to double your watts (from 570 to 1020). Good luck.

I didnt even know there was a 300m world record....this just keeps getting better and better.
I physically look larger than that guy...and am....by 2 kilos...but am cutting down to 105kilos for my sport..but i come from a track cycling backgroud w. a max output of 2217watts and a watts/kilo ratio of 21.3(when i was 98kilos) w/k, and yes i have the SRM files to back that up.
I have 30 inch legs and can put out massive ampounts of power, for a very short duration.
For those pf you that uderstand FTP power and 30second and one minute and 5 moinute power on a bike mine are as follows.
30-1423watts
1minute-1046 watts
5 minute-454watts.
Ive always been a sprinter and will never have the ability to be more than a 500meter rower(world class). Like i said b4, i'm all fast twitch and everything ive trained for has always been anaerobic.
On the velodrome my power started falling off dramatically @ about the 600-650meter mark, which is about 40 seconds into the race.....so pulling a 300meter row falls right into what i consider my sweet spot between power and aerobic capacity.

mealticket wrote:I didnt even know there was a 300m world record.... i come from a track cycling backgroud ...I've always been a sprinter and will never have the ability to be more than a 500meter rower(world class).

MT - If you are in the UK, records like the 300m one may be interesting. Will leave it to someone from the UK to comment further, but they seem to have erg regattas almost every weekend through the fall and winter. Appears to me that each event has to compete in some way for attendees & media attention. Getting a well-known erg racer to do an oddball 'record' attempt is one way.

Elsewhere, the popularity and frequency of erg regattas is not quite as high. If you are in North America, you might find a 500m sprint event as a secondary distance at a few regattas but almost all events focus on the 2K distance.

Assume this is primarily about setting personal goals and providing yourself motivation. Would be very cool to see if you could set a world record in a distance like 250m or 500m.

Cheers. Patrick.

USA...midwest.
So now i feel a personal need to bring those records back to the states....allbeit farfetched for some to concieve i think it's possible....in time
Where do i find a list of the 100-500m world records?
Ive been rowing on a #2 monitor and on an older erg.
Is there any difference in power from an erg thats 5 yrs old vs one thats new?
If he really wanted to get srious he'd bolt one down to the floor...i know i move the one that i use and thats just wasted power not going through the machine
I also watched his stroke and saw that he was very short w/ his legs and didnt utillize the entire track that the seat sits on....is this normal for sprint distances?
Yeah, it's for personal satisfaction. Like i said i have no desire to be a rower and as far as your world goes will never be more that an indoor erg racer...im sure being in a boat is an entire diffeent story.
It's like the "spinning" insructor who thinks hes hot shit and then you get him on a real bike and in the real world and put him back in his place.
But i train as hard as anyone who's reading this right now and i do like self inflicated pain from trying to achieve personal records so we'll see what becomes of it.

mealticket wrote:Where do I find a list of the 100-500m world records?
Ive been rowing on a #2 monitor and on an older erg.
Is there any difference in power from an erg thats 5 yrs old vs one thats new?
I also watched his stroke and saw that he was very short w/ his legs and didnt utillize the entire track that the seat sits on....is this normal for sprint distances?

MT,
C2 records are at this link on the US page - http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/rankings.asp
There is a FAQ page that tells you the pre-reqs for making it official.

The C2 UK website has similar information at this link, http://www.concept2.co.uk/records/index.php

As far as I can tell, the shortest distance that C2 recognizes or tracks for world records is 500m. As per an earlier post, the 300m 'record' seems to be more of an oddball publicity thing. That said, if you take a video of yourself beating it, you could post it and say you are the new world record holder. May be the start of something.

No real difference on power between Model C/D/E Ergs, some differences in Models A/B that can be addressed by using the right settings. PM2/PM3/PM4 monitors record info the same way. One item you should understand is Drag Factor. People set it based on personal preference. You can set it to any value you like - makes no difference in terms of qualifying an effort for a record. Search the forums on Drag Factor & you will get more info than you ever wanted on the topic.

As for the short stroke. As erging (like rowing) is not a continuous effort, there is a a trade-off between rate (strokes per minute) & power per stroke. You can get more power in each stroke by making it longer, but at the cost of a longer recovery. As you only get credit for power applied, the recovery is 'dead' time. Especially for short distances, there can be incremental benefit in shortening up the stroke a bit. The reduction in power/stroke is offset by the reduced recovery time. There is a point at which this becomes unproductive, so you seldom see rates much above 40, as few can maintain this pace & apply enough power in each stroke to benefit.

If you want to see a great example of how to do a high-rate 2K - take a look at this video of Henrik Stephanson http://www.quistmedia.dk/roklub/crash-b08/08022602.html setting the world lightweight record. Someone on the UK forum counted 246 strokes for an average rate of 41 strokes/min. His technique is very solid - a difficult combination.
Cheers. Patrick.