Here we go again - USIRT

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » May 23rd, 2006, 4:41 pm

This was just posted somewhere:

"The USIRDS is a group of U.S. citizens that must have done the following:

"• Rowed this past racing season at one of the following races:
http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... lendar.asp "

Well all of those races are in the past.

Interesting isn't it.

If anyone reads this, hasn't raced before and wants to qualify for the group, then they wouldn't be able to do it, because the qualification requirements are set up in retrospect.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » May 23rd, 2006, 4:47 pm

"The USIRDS is the pool that the U.S. Indoor Racing Team (USIRT) members are drawn from. The USIRT members will go to the European Indoor Rowing Challenge in December 2006.

Lisa"

What doesn't sound fair to me is that it appears you can't qualify to be on the USIRT unless you belong to the USIRDS. What if someone who didn't race last year can post the current fastest time for their age category? Shouldn't they also be able to try out for the USIRT even if they weren't on the USIRDS? I know selection to the USIRT is apparently subjectively done by C2, but, as John says, it doesn't seem fair to limit the team to only those who were fast last year.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » May 23rd, 2006, 5:04 pm

Here we go again indeed.

What part of:

"Any one of the following"

Which includes:

"• Qualified in your category based on the following times:
http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... s_2005.asp "

disqualifies anyone who didn't participate in the "past"?

Yes, "Qualified" should probably be changed to "Qualifies" to be perfectly clear, but jumping on a chance to claim "unfairness" is a bit premature.

Especially when done in a provocative way.

Produce a time that qualifes, and I'll bet you will be welcomed into the USIRDS.

Dickie · Post by **Dickie** » May 24th, 2006, 10:07 am

PaulS wrote:Here we go again indeed.

What part of:

"Any one of the following"

Which includes:

"• Qualified in your category based on the following times:
http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... s_2005.asp "

disqualifies anyone who didn't participate in the "past"?

Yes, "Qualified" should probably be changed to "Qualifies" to be perfectly clear, but jumping on a chance to claim "unfairness" is a bit premature.

Especially when done in a provocative way.

Produce a time that qualifes, and I'll bet you will be welcomed into the USIRDS.

To be fair, a post by C2lisa in the 'Dev Squad Training Forum' under the thread 'What the US Indoor Rowing Development Squad is' says

The USIRDS is a group of U.S. citizens that must have done the following:

• Rowed this past racing season at one of the following races:
http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... lendar.asp

• Qualified in your category based on the following times:
http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... s_2005.asp

There are 2 qualifications and it is not stated as an either/or proposition.

It seems that the current vittiol over times and/or meters has led to changes in the qualification process and it seems would exclude both Dwayne and Chad who did not Race last season. Is it fair, maybe, maybe not, I can't say because I don't qualify on either count.

Fred Dickie

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » May 24th, 2006, 10:18 am

I think they added the requirement that you must have done a qualifying time at a race in this past season, since I don't think that was there last year (and last year, Ranger and Dwaye were invited without any race performance that season). I don't see why that can't be considered to be fair. To make the team, you need to have demonstrated a qualifying race performance. If you happen to be newcomer who puts up huge numbers this year, you will be invited next year.

I think it would help if the process for selecting the team was more clearly articulated in advance. It is not clear to me how participation on the team over the summer and performance on the various tests is considered. I think C2 could and should validly consider these factors, since they want to put together a "team" and one of the benefits for C2 of sponsoring the team is to have an elite group of rowers to serve as ambassadors for the sport, on the forum and at races in the future.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » May 24th, 2006, 10:49 am

Dickie wrote:
PaulS wrote:Here we go again indeed.

What part of:

"Any one of the following"

Which includes:

"• Qualified in your category based on the following times:
http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... s_2005.asp "

disqualifies anyone who didn't participate in the "past"?

Yes, "Qualified" should probably be changed to "Qualifies" to be perfectly clear, but jumping on a chance to claim "unfairness" is a bit premature.

Especially when done in a provocative way.

Produce a time that qualifes, and I'll bet you will be welcomed into the USIRDS.
To be fair, a post by C2lisa in the 'Dev Squad Training Forum' under the thread 'What the US Indoor Rowing Development Squad is' says

The USIRDS is a group of U.S. citizens that must have done the following:

• Rowed this past racing season at one of the following races:
http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... lendar.asp

• Qualified in your category based on the following times:
http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... s_2005.asp

There are 2 qualifications and it is not stated as an either/or proposition.

It seems that the current vittiol over times and/or meters has led to changes in the qualification process and it seems would exclude both Dwayne and Chad who did not Race last season. Is it fair, maybe, maybe not, I can't say because I don't qualify on either count.

Fred Dickie

Yep, good point Fred, so it should read more like.
"Had a race result this past season which qualifies based on the following times: http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... s_2005.asp "

Kind of tough luck for this season, but should be just fine for those that want to plan for the future USIRDS/USIRT, as long as it is kept consistent.

I suppose if one were extremely desiring a spot on the USIRT, they could get in touch with the coaches and arrange to travel to the coaches site an prove their worth, much like National Team selection is done (not that this is an official "national team" in any way), should we expect anything less?

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » May 24th, 2006, 11:10 am

michaelb wrote:one of the benefits for C2 of sponsoring the team is to have an elite group of rowers to serve as ambassadors for the sport, on the forum

Well then one of the criteria should be the number of postings on the forum this past year.

Chad Williams · Post by **Chad Williams** » May 25th, 2006, 4:38 am

Dickie wrote:It seems that the current vittiol over times and/or meters has led to changes in the qualification process and it seems would exclude both Dwayne and Chad who did not Race last season. Is it fair, maybe, maybe not, I can't say because I don't qualify on either count.

Fred Dickie

This is great news; I commend C2 on the way they are now running the USIRT and Development Squad.

As I understand the new system I am not able to be part of USIRT this year as I have not meet any of the requirements, I have not raced at one of the required races and not met the required qualifying time, this being 6.24.2 for a 40-49 Hwt.

For me to be part of USIRT next year I need to race this year (I will be at WiRC 2007) and as long as I score quicker than 6.24.2 I should be selected to be part of next years Development squad.

This is a much better way to run the programme.

Well done to C2.

ehagberg · Post by **ehagberg** » May 25th, 2006, 11:14 am

My only negative comment on this year´s selection process is that they didn't state ahead of time that the 2005 USIRDS qualifying times would be used for this year's selection (the same set they used for last year)... so there was no previously-announced selection criteria until after the process had been completed.

Aside from that, it seems a fair enough way to handle things as everyone was at the same disadvantage.

Dickie · Post by **Dickie** » May 25th, 2006, 1:04 pm

Chad Williams wrote:
Dickie wrote:It seems that the current vittiol over times and/or meters has led to changes in the qualification process and it seems would exclude both Dwayne and Chad who did not Race last season. Is it fair, maybe, maybe not, I can't say because I don't qualify on either count.

Fred Dickie
This is great news; I commend C2 on the way they are now running the USIRT and Development Squad.

As I understand the new system I am not able to be part of USIRT this year as I have not meet any of the requirements, I have not raced at one of the required races and not met the required qualifying time, this being 6.24.2 for a 40-49 Hwt.

For me to be part of USIRT next year I need to race this year (I will be at WiRC 2007) and as long as I score quicker than 6.24.2 I should be selected to be part of next years Development squad.

This is a much better way to run the programme.

Well done to C2.

I don't see this news as quite 'great'. In the past you were allowed to participate if you rowed a piece witnessed by a C2 designated representative.

If C2 picks and trusts their witness, I don't see why that is not acceptable for inclusion in the development squad.

Fred Dickie

Sir P · Post by **Sir P** » May 26th, 2006, 3:06 pm

So, you can only do it at races from now on? That sounds like a great move to me.

No one can question anything about the time pulled now can they

Sir P

ranger · Post by **ranger** » June 5th, 2006, 9:38 pm

My only negative comment on this year´s selection process is that they didn't state ahead of time that the 2005 USIRDS qualifying times would be used for this year's selection (the same set they used for last year)... so there was no previously-announced selection criteria until after the process had been completed.

Getting on the USIRDS puts you in the pool for selection. The establishment of this pool is not a selection policy. C2 still says nothing about their selection policy.

I have e-mailed the C2 team managers about this. We'll see how they respond to my request for clarification.

In the letters to those invited, C2 says that last year's selection was made "on the basis of the October 2K tests." C2 says nothing about the policy this year. They also do not say what "on the basis" means, in terms of a decision procedure.

Clearly, in the past, the best 2Ks in the official, witnessed 2K trials for the USIRT were _not_ selected for the team. C2 just selected whomever they wanted.

Until they state otherwise, I would assume that this is still C2's policy. So, for those who are on the USIRDS, I wouldn't get your hopes up. You could even row a world record and be excluded from the team, even in no one else rows as well.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » June 5th, 2006, 9:40 pm

No one can question anything about the time pulled now can they

Ha!

Look again.

The USIRDS doesn't go anywhere. They just

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » June 5th, 2006, 9:41 pm

do trials in their basement/garage and feel the pain!

Some get to go to Amsterdam, but who goes is entirely up for grabs. It has nothing to do with the trials.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » June 5th, 2006, 9:45 pm

it seems a fair enough way to handle things

C2 has yet to say a word that bears in a substantial way on "fairness," and my guess is that they won't.

I would be pleased if they did, but to this point, there is no historical precedent for it.

ranger