Concept2 Forum

Registration opened December 1. What, no weight cateories? Other regattas have figured this out. Also you have to be a member of US Rowing.

"Event Classifications
This year (2021), there will be no weight-based classes (flyweight, lightweight, and openweight) within events, though age-based event classifications will remain."

PaulG wrote: ↑

December 3rd, 2020, 4:44 pm

Registration opened December 1. What, no weight cateories? Other regattas have figured this out. Also you have to be a member of US Rowing.

"Event Classifications
This year (2021), there will be no weight-based classes (flyweight, lightweight, and openweight) within events, though age-based event classifications will remain."

While it doesn't I pact me I noticed that. Also, they are claiming to be the World Championship again and to qualify for WRIC and being from U.S.A. I need to do the Canadian Championship - weird. Things are very different and a little confusing this year.

Can I join in to complain about lack of lightweight categories at Crash Bs? Other indoor regattas have either figured this out (such as the highly detailed procedures for the World Championships), OR they are just going to use an honor system. Lets be real---virtual rowing already IS an honor system. No perfect way to check for PEDs, false identities/ages, proxy rowers, and doctored ergs. Really not sure how they can call it the "National Championships" with this approach.

jpitchford wrote: ↑

December 10th, 2020, 12:59 am

Can I join in to complain about lack of lightweight categories at Crash Bs? Other indoor regattas have either figured this out (such as the highly detailed procedures for the World Championships), OR they are just going to use an honor system. Lets be real---virtual rowing already IS an honor system. No perfect way to check for PEDs, false identities/ages, proxy rowers, and doctored ergs. Really not sure how they can call it the "National Championships" with this approach.

I was beaten by someone in the LM40 at SRIC by a good 6/7s as they pushed 6:46 or something.......the same person only managed 7:30 at BRIC.....makes you wonder doesn't it.

Me against the erg is really all that matters and then you are only cheating yourself if you manipulate results. It's a shame but no doubt someone will be doing it

winniewinser wrote: ↑

December 10th, 2020, 5:03 am

I was beaten by someone in the LM40 at SRIC by a good 6/7s as they pushed 6:46 or something.......the same person only managed 7:30 at BRIC.....makes you wonder doesn't it.

Me against the erg is really all that matters and then you are only cheating yourself if you manipulate results. It's a shame but no doubt someone will be doing it

I do defo wonder about that. Unless they were injured / had an incident in the race etc, then there is no way there could be that sort of discrepancy in finishing times.

Admittedly there may have been some sort of issue that we are not aware of, but also there is a chance that there wasn't. I don't understand why someone would want to do that though. You've got to stand or fall by your own ability.

Dangerscouse wrote: ↑

December 10th, 2020, 6:46 am

winniewinser wrote: ↑

December 10th, 2020, 5:03 am

I was beaten by someone in the LM40 at SRIC by a good 6/7s as they pushed 6:46 or something.......the same person only managed 7:30 at BRIC.....makes you wonder doesn't it.

Me against the erg is really all that matters and then you are only cheating yourself if you manipulate results. It's a shame but no doubt someone will be doing it

I do defo wonder about that. Unless they were injured / had an incident in the race etc, then there is no way there could be that sort of discrepancy in finishing times.

Admittedly there may have been some sort of issue that we are not aware of, but also there is a chance that there wasn't. I don't understand why someone would want to do that though. You've got to stand or fall by your own ability.

Doesn't look like an issue but an injury is a possibility.....

Splits were 01:54.6 01:54.3 01:53.2 01:48.8

Doesn't matter really cos I know I did my best and that's all that matters.

Very sorry for anyone who gets cheated by a cheater, if that is what happened.

Back to the “injustice” of US Championships/Crash Bs skipping LW categories this year, anyone have any ideas how to successfully protest? Seriously, they have time to figure it out, and could simply adopt the World Championship procedures. Easy! Any other disgruntled LWs out there?

Back to the “injustice” of US Championships/Crash Bs skipping LW categories this year, anyone have any ideas how to successfully protest? Seriously, they have time to figure it out, and could simply adopt the World Championship procedures. Easy! Any other disgruntled LWs out there?

Well one thing we can do is vote with our feet and not compete and let CRASH B know why. I will also drop my membership in US Rowing. But before we get to that point there is a mailing address on the CRASH B website where we can contact the regatta chairman and let him know of our concerns. There is no emal address.

We are all assuming that LWT rowing was dropped due to concerns over cheating. That's a reasonable assumption but we really don't know the reason. If they are concerned about cheating there is no way to completely prevent that in an on line regatta. Even the calibration of the scales can be tampered with. So, some positive suggetions with regard to LWT rowing at CRASH Bs are:

1. Complete honor system but don't award any medals. "We don't need any stinkin badges!"
2. Ask each LWT rower to sign an attestation that they weighed themselves and met the limit within the timeframe prior to competition.
3. Same as above but have a witness sign also.
4. Video evidence showing weight, ID, and a time/date stamp. (this is easier than the photo).
5. Photo evidence showing weight, ID, and a time/date stamp. (hard to get all of these in one frame).

Recognizing that CRASH B may be limited by the number of volunteers to check all of this, have everyone complete the one option among 2-5 chosen by CRASH B, but only ask the medal winners to submit the evidence AFTER the race. No evidence no medal.

Other regattas have figured this out and there is no reason CRASH B couldn't. If they need more help ask for it. The potential for cheating in an on line ragatta is always there in all categories but that's no reason to drop one category. I am very unlikely to medal so I don't have a real vested interest in this.

I will send these suggestions to CRASH B and I suggest other people also mail them. If they didn't want us to mail them they wouldn't have put the mailing address out there. https://www.crash-b.org/about/

Mailing Address
C.R.A.S.H.-B. Sprints
c/o Howie Schmuck
55 Everett Avenue
Watertown MA, 02472-1811


Paulg

Thanks for the comprehensive response Paul G. Actually, I do know for certain that concern over cheating is the reason CRASH-Bs eliminated LWT categories. I have an e-mail, dated 12/3, from Sarah McAuliffe, Senior Events Manager of USRA. In response to my inquiry, she wrote:

“There are no lightweight events for the 2021 Virtual Indoor National Championships/CRASH-B’s due to inability to verify weights in an effective and private way.”

No other way to interpret that. And while I 100% appreciate the desire to ensure a fair event, USRA has really gone too far, and left out a significant portion of the erging/rowing community.

I saw this over on the Rowing Illustrated Forum. Ben is trying to put together a Lightweight Championship. USRA really screwed this up and now is likely to splinter the CRASH Bs resulting in lower participation in a sport that doesn't have the best reputation for inclusion.
PaulG

"Here’s an update:
I posted the event list on regattacentral: https://www.regattacentral.com/regatta/?job_id=7215
Most of the events are for Lightweight (Under 165lb men, Under 135lb women). There are also events for: Flyweight (Under 140lb men, Under 115lb women); Not quite a lightweight, but close (165lb to175lb men, 135lb to 145lb women); Former lightweight (rowed as lightweight in the past, but not getting near a scale now); Never been a lightweight, but this seems like a fun event (aka heavyweight).

There’s going to be an asynchronous portion the week prior where people can row the pieces on their own. Then, there will be a live event on March 13.

The winner of each live event will get a custom Dunkin’ Donuts gift card with the regatta logo, his/her name, event, and winning time on it.

I still have quite a bit to do before I can open registration. I should be able to open registration in a couple of weeks. Keep in mind: I’m building this regatta myself from scratch, and I have a family and a pretty demanding full-time job. I anticipate that the regatta will probably lose money (if it does turn a profit, the profits will be donated to Pocock Foundation - A Most Beautiful Thing Fund and Feeding America.) My goals for this regatta are to give lightweights a chance to race virtually and have large enough participation that future regattas will include lightweight categories. To that end, I ask that you help spread the word and encourage people to sign up.

https://usltwtirnc.com/
https://www.instagram.com/usltwtirnc/
https://www.facebook.com/USLtwtIRNC/

- Ben "

PaulG wrote: ↑

January 2nd, 2021, 12:14 pm

I saw this over on the Rowing Illustrated Forum. Ben is trying to put together a Lightweight Championship. USRA really screwed this up and now is likely to splinter the CRASH Bs resulting in lower participation in a sport that doesn't have the best reputation for inclusion.
PaulG

"Here’s an update:
I posted the event list on regattacentral: https://www.regattacentral.com/regatta/?job_id=7215
Most of the events are for Lightweight (Under 165lb men, Under 135lb women). There are also events for: Flyweight (Under 140lb men, Under 115lb women); Not quite a lightweight, but close (165lb to175lb men, 135lb to 145lb women); Former lightweight (rowed as lightweight in the past, but not getting near a scale now); Never been a lightweight, but this seems like a fun event (aka heavyweight).

There’s going to be an asynchronous portion the week prior where people can row the pieces on their own. Then, there will be a live event on March 13.

The winner of each live event will get a custom Dunkin’ Donuts gift card with the regatta logo, his/her name, event, and winning time on it.

I still have quite a bit to do before I can open registration. I should be able to open registration in a couple of weeks. Keep in mind: I’m building this regatta myself from scratch, and I have a family and a pretty demanding full-time job. I anticipate that the regatta will probably lose money (if it does turn a profit, the profits will be donated to Pocock Foundation - A Most Beautiful Thing Fund and Feeding America.) My goals for this regatta are to give lightweights a chance to race virtually and have large enough participation that future regattas will include lightweight categories. To that end, I ask that you help spread the word and encourage people to sign up.

https://usltwtirnc.com/
https://www.instagram.com/usltwtirnc/
https://www.facebook.com/USLtwtIRNC/

- Ben "

I messaged Ben after BRIC and he mentioned this event, sounds interesting but I'll likely be trying to qualify for WRICH at the CIRC so may not have another 2k in me .

Ben also mentioned he was injured when he raced in BRIC so that explains his drop in time I previously mentioned. I apologise for doubting his integrity .

winniewinser wrote: ↑

January 3rd, 2021, 5:34 am

Ben also mentioned he was injured when he raced in BRIC so that explains his drop in time I previously mentioned. I apologise for doubting his integrity .

Just saw this thread ...
Yes, I had a pretty bad back injury 3 days before BRIC. If you watch the youtube stream, they interviewed me after the race and I talk about it. I've done a ton of online racing this past year (Australian champs, Schuylkill, charles, premier rowing league). If you look me up on rankedworkouts.com, you'll see 7:30 is the outlier, not the 6:48.

If you are fed up like me with the exclusion of lightweights, as mentioned, I'm holding the US Lightweight Indoor Rowing National Championships on March 13. I think I have everything in place to open registration on Monday. I just posted the entry packet last night. (There's also an asynchronous option for people who aren't up for live racing.)

https://usltwtirnc.com/
https://www.regattacentral.com/regatta/?job_id=7215
https://www.instagram.com/usltwtirnc/

We will offer the following weight categories:

Flyweight (Under 140lb men, Under 115lb women)
Lightweight (Under 165lb men, Under 135lb women)
Not quite a lightweight, but close (165lb to175lb men, 135lb to 145lb women)
Former lightweight (rowed as lightweight in the past, but not getting near a scale now)
Never been a lightweight, but this seems like a fun event (aka heavyweight)

International athletes are welcome.

I think it would make a big statement if a bunch of people registered as soon as it opens.

Also, this is my first time hosting a regatta, so I ask for some patience.

No offense intended & with the utmost respect to the organizer of CRASH B, but is that his real name or a typo?

mict450 wrote: ↑

January 9th, 2021, 10:23 am

No offense intended & with the utmost respect to the organizer of CRASH B, but is that his real name or a typo?

Real name.