Will Oesterling make it 'official' < WR 65-69 2k

[mikvan52]

I guess all of us who are watching the records go down in the 65-69 HWTs are wondering:
WIll TJO (Oesterling) foot the airfare and get the official 65-69 World Record title?

Any of you in cyber space know?
(It has to be set at a sanctioned race.... )

Time is running out for this year...
It would be a shame if he doesn't give it a whirl... even though TJO already has the unofficial title. His time above from last August already has set that one.

The 65+ set is pretty darn amazing. Hamlin rowed a WR time twice in two weeks last year...
It would be great to see another in 2014!

I should note: Charlie Hamlin's record is 6:40.3.


Naturally, this topic has been broached before...
At:
http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 69#p191269

[Cyclingman1]

I guess all of us who are watching the records go down in the 65-69 HWTs are wondering:
WIll TJO (Oesterling) foot the airfare and get the official 65-69 World Record title?

MVB, I'm no TJO, but in terms of unofficial versus official 2K WRs, I was in the same boat. In Apr, 2012, I did 6:40.7 C2Log for 65+ HWt at age 66. The WR at the was time 6:41.4 by Roger Borggaard set at Crash B in Feb, 2011 at age 65. I had the unoffical WR for ten months until Hamlin did 6:40.3 in Feb, 2013. My time is still the best time for a 66 yr old. My 6:48.8 this yr is the best time for a 67 year old.

Actually, I'm not happy with my times the last two yrs. I've had one situation after another. I would like to get the 6:40. But, if TJO decides to push for the 65+ record, he will put it out of sight. I bet there are other similar stories. I suppose I see the Concept 2 corporation's stand on the 2K times. But do they not trust their Log Card system?

BTW, I did post in the "What Training ..." forum my dismal 6:54.6 today at the regional regatta at GA TECH. But I did it knowing that it was no more than a training row rather than race. It was more of a fun row.

Jim Grattan

[gregsmith01748]

. I suppose I see the Concept 2 corporation's stand on the 2K times. But do they not trust their Log Card system?

I think that concept2 is trying to make sure that there are real witnesses to ensure that the result on your log card was rowed by you, and not a ringer.

[Bob S.]

. I suppose I see the Concept 2 corporation's stand on the 2K times. But do they not trust their Log Card system?

I think that concept2 is trying to make sure that there are real witnesses to ensure that the result on your log card was rowed by you, and not a ringer.

Historically, there is an actual case of a ringer entry (a team of top rowers) that broke the standing open record at that time and was entered with a validation "V." Apparently it was done just to prove that it was possible to get around it.

Bob S.

[Cyclingman1]

It is odd that all other WRs at distances other than 2K can be accepted via C2 machine codes/Log Cards.

I know that 2K carries particular weight, but if their system of user submission of times is that much in doubt then why accept any times from users, let alone calling some times World Records?

[hjs]

It is odd that all other WRs at distances other than 2K can be accepted via C2 machine codes/Log Cards.

I know that 2K carries particular weight, but if their system of user submission of times is that much in doubt then why accept any times from users, let alone calling some times World Records?

Simple, races are seldom not over 2k and rowing is 2k, the rest does hardly matter.

[Bob S.]

The other question might be, "Why is the 2k so predominant in the rowing world?" The main answer of course is that it is the officially Olympic distance. It has not always been that way. My first introduction to rowing competition was at the college level in the 40's. At that time the college races were 2, 3, and 4 milers and the 2k was just as once every four year aberration for the Olympics. "The Boat Race" is still 4 miles I believe and possibly the Harvard-Yale U.S. classic, but the 2k took over the yearly Intercollegiate Rowing Association season finale regatta over 50 years ago. Prior to WWII it had been 4 miles and always at Poughkeepsie. After the war, it was cut to 3 miles and eventually to the 2k and has been held at various venues since that time.

Bob S.

[hjs]

The other question might be, "Why is the 2k so predominant in the rowing world?" The main answer of course is that it is the officially Olympic distance. It has not always been that way. My first introduction to rowing competition was at the college level in the 40's. At that time the college races were 2, 3, and 4 milers and the 2k was just as once every four year aberration for the Olympics. "The Boat Race" is still 4 miles I believe and possibly the Harvard-Yale U.S. classic, but the 2k took over the yearly Intercollegiate Rowing Association season finale regatta over 50 years ago. Prior to WWII it had been 4 miles and always at Poughkeepsie. After the war, it was cut to 3 miles and eventually to the 2k and has been held at various venues since that time.

Bob S.

Difficult to make longer tracks, 2k is already pretty long. Open water is often choppy water or in rivers not possible to race in lanes.

The boatrace is no real race, not open.

So shorter would be possible, but keeping it classic like it is seems best.

[mikvan52]

.... then there is the LWT situation with WRs......

Some "glory"-weights love to make an end run around rules / some "sanctioned" regattas don't stick to the rules...
Even "IND_V" postings do not take weight into account < all that is verified is date and performance...

When it comes right down to it, how hard is it to make it to an sanctioned event if you are really gung-ho about competition...?

TJO has one of the the worst case scenarios, him and those down-under.... You have to travel.

But hell... if you want to get in an Olympic final..... >> .... you have to go to the Olympics...
What does the word "championship" suggest? ~> rowing in your own private Bat-cave ??

Top European rowers don't even bother to post scores in the C2 rankings...
The record book for the erg is skewed toward English speaking nations... It's kind of ironic that there are all of these American names art or near the top of the rankings with their individual results on the erg.... Where, pray tell, are any medals in sculling at international elite sanctioned races?

and now, with the dynamic, RowPerfect and other machines, the static erg is slowly becoming the stegosaurus of rowing machines...

[Bob S.]

At first glance that picture made me think it was intended for me for bringing up rowing stuff 50 and more years out of date. On reading the post, I realized that it wasn't, but it is probably appropriate.

Bob S.

[sharp_rower]

Top European rowers don't even bother to post scores in the C2 rankings...
The record book for the erg is skewed toward English speaking nations... It's kind of ironic that there are all of these American names art or near the top of the rankings with their individual results on the erg.... Where, pray tell, are any medals in sculling at international elite sanctioned races?

and now, with the dynamic, RowPerfect and other machines, the static erg is slowly becoming the stegosaurus of rowing machines...

Well some of the top rowers don't want to advertise their scores. Eric Murray had a 5:48.0 2k posted on the rankings a few days ago, but it has since been removed (probably at the behest of his coach; The Kiwi Pair posted on Facebook they were under a gag order in terms of revealing the results of their recent erg workouts...).

The static erg may be on its way out for serious on-water rowers, but for the gym-goer, I highly doubt it's on its way out. I would guess sales have never been higher.

[hjs]

well some of the top rowers don't want to advertise their scores. Eric Murray had a 5:48.0 2k posted on the rankings a few days ago, but it has since been removed (probably at the behest of his coach; The Kiwi Pair posted on Facebook they were under a gag order in terms of revealing the results of their recent erg workouts...).

The static erg may be on its way out for serious on-water rowers, but for the gym-goer, I highly doubt it's on its way out. I would guess sales have never been higher.

At our national championships 1300 plus ergers did a 2k, ranging from 5.43 and up, only a handfull of them found it worthy to rank the times, non on the sub 6 ers did. The results are free online, so hiding is not an issue.

[Cyclingman1]

Indoor rowing machines are viewed differently by OTW rowers, especially high level rowers. They are truly training devices for the most part. There are no points gained in posting Erg times. Erg times may be important to the rowers and coaches, but not as important as the goal of racing well. And in racing, times are not really the issue: it is where one finishes. Times vary greatly based on weather and water conditions.

I dare say most C2 indoor rowers have never been and will never be OTW rowers. I think the C2 ranking system is an incentive to the typical indoor rower. The fact that the world’s best OTW rowers do not participate is an irrelevancy. Their world is really quite different than those churning out meters in their basement.

The staying power of C2 static rowers is a concern. The whole C2 ranking system is based on everyone having machines that are calibrated and perform in a similar manner. I can see market forces having an impact on this rather closed world. I’m not sure how that would play out.

I suppose that by monopolizing the certification of C2 2K times, Concept2 is ensuring that their rowers will be rower of choice. Maybe that is a good thing. That addresses the concern of the staying power of C2 static rowers. That is probably the best argument for not permitting C2Log times for 2K be official. The argument that 2K is the standard OTW distance is not particularly relevant to indoor rowers.

[mikvan52]

I was talking with DIck Dreissigacker recently and asked him if he was interested in pushing for a switch from the static to the dynamic at CRASH-Bs...
He was sort of non-commital but voiced the obvious concern that programs would not like to switch out their equipment...
I do feel he is excited about the long-term prospects for the Dynamic... as well he should be.

As for me, I'm a brontosaurus.... I love slides! ~ but I am focused on rowing well on the water...


I feel like youth rowing is taking up the slack in the static erg market... College programs have to be beginning to shy away from them...
Once an athlete is IN a program, coaches want them to row well... for results OTW..
Static ergers are great athletes too, don't get me wrong... It's just different...

[mikvan52]

I guess all of us who are watching the records go down in the 65-69 HWTs are wondering:
WIll TJO (Oesterling) foot the airfare and get the official 65-69 World Record title?

Any of you in cyber space know?
(It has to be set at a sanctioned race.... )

I gather he's not going to..
C'est triste!