Here we go again - USIRT

[whp4]

it seems a fair enough way to handle things

C2 has yet to say a word that bears in a substantial way on "fairness," and my guess is that they won't.

I would be pleased if they did, but to this point, there is no historical precedent for it.

ranger

With new team management and coaches, your sour grapes from years ago have even less relevance than ever. The old group chose someone else over you, and he didn't row as well as you think you would have had you been on the team. Whatever. Grow up and move on.

Feel free to show otherwise, but my impression is that everyone on last year's team rowed very close to their best, and everyone came home with a medal of some sort. In other words, they demonstrated winning consistency in their performances, and none of the results had footnotes about "would have broken the WR, except didn't get the water balance right". What benefit was lost by not having you on the team? I'd read the postings from the other team members bemoaning your absence, but I can't seem to find them!

[Dickie]

it seems a fair enough way to handle things

C2 has yet to say a word that bears in a substantial way on "fairness," and my guess is that they won't.

I would be pleased if they did, but to this point, there is no historical precedent for it.

ranger

With new team management and coaches, your sour grapes from years ago have even less relevance than ever. The old group chose someone else over you, and he didn't row as well as you think you would have had you been on the team. Whatever. Grow up and move on.

Feel free to show otherwise, but my impression is that everyone on last year's team rowed very close to their best, and everyone came home with a medal of some sort. In other words, they demonstrated winning consistency in their performances, and none of the results had footnotes about "would have broken the WR, except didn't get the water balance right". What benefit was lost by not having you on the team? I'd read the postings from the other team members bemoaning your absence, but I can't seem to find them!

Sour grapes aside, it would be nice to know what it will take to be considered for next years squad now, so that I can properly prepare. I don't think I could have made this years squad but I didn't see the qualifications until after the squad was selected and since the new criteria includes having raced this past season, I could not possibly qualify now that the season is over.

Fred Dickie

[ranger]

Sour grapes aside, it would be nice to know what it will take to be considered for next years squad now, so that I can properly prepare. I don't think I could have made this years squad but I didn't see the qualifications until after the squad was selected and since the new criteria includes having raced this past season, I could not possibly qualify now that the season is over.

Qualification for the pool of candidates is not selection.

C2 has made no public statement about their selection policy.

Again, I see no reason not to do this if C2 is just putting together a "company" team of good ol' boys (and girls), subject to no objective criteria. My 85-year-old mother and I could also form a team and go to EIRC. Who would object? I could also make my mother do an official witnessed trial, just to be sure that she would do what I say, when I say. I could even exclude her from the team, even if she rowed a good trial!

But C2 is calling the team selected the United States Indoor Rowing Team. That's absurd, if there are both witnessed, official trials and no objective critieria for selection.

It is unprecedented and inappropriate.

ranger

[ranger]

The old group chose someone else over you, and he didn't row as well as you think you would have had you been on the team.

That's not the issue. In the past, many of the USIRT folk have rowed pretty poorly at EIRC, several seconds off their trial time, sometimes even slower than their qualification time.

The issue is that selection should objective. Those who row the best in the trials should be selected. Yes, those who row best in the trials might also row poorly in the competition, but at least they earned it! In the past, those who rowed the best trials have sometimes not been selected. There is nothing to justify this.

No, my continuing objections here as just as relevant as ever. Fairness in sports is a pretty big issue (as we are discovering with the steroid issue, Barry Bonds, etc.).

No real athletic contest is run as C2 is running this show.

ranger

[ranger]

I think that the 2007 WIRC hammers should be "selected" from the top ten finishers, based on a committee of C2 employees. Finishing time does not necessarily determine selection.



Now, that would make winning a hammer _really_ meaningful!

ranger

[ranger]

I'd read the postings from the other team members bemoaning your absence, but I can't seem to find them!

In individual sports, selection for a team that is based on official witnessed trials is not determined by popularity, who wants who to be on the team, etc.

This is what is so refreshing about sports. The outcomes of contests are not based on prejudice, whim, social advantage, pedigree, cronyism, etc.

The best time wins.

ranger

[ranger]

With new team management and coaches

If C2's policy has changed because of this change of management, then C2 should say so.

Why not?

I find their silence baffling.

ranger

[Chad Williams]

Ranger, at what weight category will you be competing in at WiRC 2007?

Also Ranger, being part of the USIRT is more than just beating the qualifying time; I would think that being a “Team member” means just that.

Like you I tend to be outspoken, I can not see me fitting in with the USIRT after what has gone on in the past. Things have now changed and for the better, I will qualify for next years Development Squad but somehow doubt I will make the team, we will see.

[row4life]

Ranger, at what weight category will you be competing in at WiRC 2007?

Also Ranger, being part of the USIRT is more than just beating the qualifying time; I would think that being a “Team member” means just that.

Like you I tend to be outspoken, I can not see me fitting in with the USIRT after what has gone on in the past. Things have now changed and for the better, I will qualify for next years Development Squad but somehow doubt I will make the team, we will see.

Knew you couldn't stay gone. You gave your word too. We can all see what that's worth now can't we?

[PaulS]

Ranger, at what weight category will you be competing in at WiRC 2007?

Also Ranger, being part of the USIRT is more than just beating the qualifying time; I would think that being a “Team member” means just that.

Like you I tend to be outspoken, I can not see me fitting in with the USIRT after what has gone on in the past. Things have now changed and for the better, I will qualify for next years Development Squad but somehow doubt I will make the team, we will see.

Knew you couldn't stay gone. You gave your word too. We can all see what that's worth now can't we?

Come on R4L, Ranger had also banished himself to his diary, yet is still prolific. Offer something productive and quit with the personal attack crap. Just a suggestion, as you are free to keep up with the crap if you like, it's all part of the forum community.

[ranger]

Also Ranger, being part of the USIRT is more than just beating the qualifying time; I would think that being a “Team member” means just that.

Yes, that is just how Olympic teams, etc., are selected. Public trials are held. Then a committee of coaches and Olympic committee official scutinizes the top finishers in order to decide whether they are sufficiently "correct" in their views and and behavior in order to be included on the team. Team members that are already selected also vote on whether those not yet selected should be included.



ranger

[ranger]

Ranger, at what weight category will you be competing in at WiRC 2007?

lwt

ranger

[TomR]

A reasonable criterion for selection could be the "reliability" of a qualifier's past performance. On that count, you score poorly, i.e. 7+ minutes for 2k at the most recent Crash-B. (We're not interested in your excuses.)

Another reasonable criterion for selection is compatibility of team members. Even though team members perform indivdually, they travel as a group. If there are more potential qualifiers than available spots, it is entirely reasonable--indeed wise--for coaches to consider how team members will get along during their time together to establish a climate that will allow the greatest number of participants to perform at their best. Judging from posts of other potential team members, you will not score high in this category.

Both of these criteria have an element of subjectivity to them, but so what? Coaches always consider a combination of both "facts" and feelings when making their determinations about players, games plans, and the llike.

Said differently, the coaches would be foolish to decide team membership solely on the basis of an October trial when they have additional relevant information about an athlete.

Tom

[johnlvs2run]

it is entirely reasonable--indeed wise--for coaches to consider how team members will get along during their time together to establish a climate that will allow the greatest number of participants to perform at their best. Judging from posts of other potential team members, you will not score high in this category.

Bull Shit.

Rich is one of the most popular people in the rowing community.

The ones to get rid of are the hypocrites.

[Rockin Roland]

Ranger,

Maybe the real reason you didn't get selected for USIRT was because of your poor technique.

Just like all the cosmetic and hair care product companies rarely ever use ugly models, C2 didn't want the World to see someone from their "show case" team, on their product, with crap technique.

Since it's summer now you should be spending every available training hour on the water in your boat. Forget about this C2 bashing thing. It's not going to change anything. Fund your own effort next winter and show us what you can do.

You will be guaranteed an audience just like you are on this forum.