Stroke rate and pace?

[Zeebies]

New rower here. I recently entered my first race and I’m trying to understand why my race graph looks different compared to competitors in may age group. The stroke rate and pace lines for others seemed to generally flow together. My graph looks a little funky in the second half. Can anyone help me understand why my graph looks like it does? Is there anything I can do to improve? Thanks from the newbie.

[Sakly]

Hi and welcome!
To get the point you are talking about, it would be helpful to see the graph.
Typically the pace gets faster with the higher rate, not necessarily in a linear fashion, but you shouldn't get slower on a higher rate, if you are not completely crashing.

[jamesg]

If HR starts getting too high during a race, pace may drop and your youthful enthusiasm might then increase rating to try to compensate. Welcome to the Nether World of Rowing where angels fear to tread.

I've come to the belief that the erg is fine for getting fit, but ther's u ilmt to al gd t...

[gvcormac]

Stroke rate is largely unrelated to power and pace. If you pull harder with a slower rate, you get the same pace.

I prefer 30-ish for distance, and 35-ish for sprints, but lots of influencers tell you to train yourself to pull slower. Perhaps that helps strength a bit, but I'm oxygen not strength limited for anything over a minute or two.

I occasionally row at 20 or even 15 with the same pace, but mainly I ignore the influencers and do what's comfortable.

[Dangerscouse]

Stroke rate is largely unrelated to power and pace. If you pull harder with a slower rate, you get the same pace.

I prefer 30-ish for distance, and 35-ish for sprints, but lots of influencers tell you to train yourself to pull slower. Perhaps that helps strength a bit, but I'm oxygen not strength limited for anything over a minute or two.

I occasionally row at 20 or even 15 with the same pace, but mainly I ignore the influencers and do what's comfortable.

Good point. It's largely ignored that people's limiters can be different, and then there's the usual funneling of thought into 'that's what you need to do'.

Evan Peikon has a very interesting blog explaining the three limiters: strength, oxygen delivery and oxygen utilisation. I'm fairly sure I struggle with the latter.

[MPx]

Evan Peikon has a very interesting blog explaining the three limiters: strength, oxygen delivery and oxygen utilisation. I'm fairly sure I struggle with the latter.

I certainly agree - and its obvious looking at what people achieve - that some of us (like me) are relatively better than (age/sex/weight) peers at sprints while others are relatively better at endurance - it has ever been thus. Training volume and specificity has a bearing on that and we almost inevitably prefer training for what were better at thus maximimising the differential.

Nevertheless Stu, I'm at a loss to understand how a chap such as yourself, able to knock out significant distance pieces on a whim with top 2% placings in the rankings can consder themselves lacking in any way in Oxygen Utilisation! I do understand that there's whole other layers of "elite" out there, but in absolute numbers very few of them and they are properly exceptional atheletes. I do sometimes wonder if you haven't yet realised quite how good you are! Keep it going mate - I'll look forward to those results when you finally sort out the OU.

[Dangerscouse]

I certainly agree - and its obvious looking at what people achieve - that some of us (like me) are relatively better than (age/sex/weight) peers at sprints while others are relatively better at endurance - it has ever been thus. Training volume and specificity has a bearing on that and we almost inevitably prefer training for what were better at thus maximimising the differential.

Nevertheless Stu, I'm at a loss to understand how a chap such as yourself, able to knock out significant distance pieces on a whim with top 2% placings in the rankings can consder themselves lacking in any way in Oxygen Utilisation! I do understand that there's whole other layers of "elite" out there, but in absolute numbers very few of them and they are properly exceptional atheletes. I do sometimes wonder if you haven't yet realised quite how good you are! Keep it going mate - I'll look forward to those results when you finally sort out the OU.

Very kind of you to say, but I always, and will always, struggle with accepting my relative performance. It's a slight flaw in my character, but it also makes sure that I stay grounded and can appreciate and encourage my peers' performances.

[KeithT]

I certainly agree - and its obvious looking at what people achieve - that some of us (like me) are relatively better than (age/sex/weight) peers at sprints while others are relatively better at endurance - it has ever been thus. Training volume and specificity has a bearing on that and we almost inevitably prefer training for what were better at thus maximimising the differential.

Nevertheless Stu, I'm at a loss to understand how a chap such as yourself, able to knock out significant distance pieces on a whim with top 2% placings in the rankings can consder themselves lacking in any way in Oxygen Utilisation! I do understand that there's whole other layers of "elite" out there, but in absolute numbers very few of them and they are properly exceptional atheletes. I do sometimes wonder if you haven't yet realised quite how good you are! Keep it going mate - I'll look forward to those results when you finally sort out the OU.

Very kind of you to say, but I always, and will always, struggle with accepting my relative performance. It's a slight flaw in my character, but it also makes sure that I stay grounded and can appreciate and encourage my peers' performances.

Ok then - I think you are a slacker and can do better - need to work harder!

[Dangerscouse]

Ok then - I think you are a slacker and can do better - need to work harder!

Hahaha, I am to some extent. I honestly think that quite a few of my PBs are beatable. As a great example, my 6k PB is a faster pace than my 5k PB!!

[Zeebies]

Thanks everyone for your info and explanations. I did try to attach a graph to my post but apparently the file was too large and it didn’t take. The file was just a picture of my race graph. Any suggestions for attaching the graph? Thanks.

[Sakly]

Thanks everyone for your info and explanations. I did try to attach a graph to my post but apparently the file was too large and it didn’t take. The file was just a picture of my race graph. Any suggestions for attaching the graph? Thanks.

I use imgbb.com to upload pictures and use provided BB code in the post.

[Zeebies]

Sorry for letting this thread drag…. Would really like some opinions on why this graph looks as it does. Thanks.

https://ibb.co/SdSfxpd

[Zeebies]

And thanks to Sakly for image posting help.

[MPx]

OK the rate line is flatter than the pace line so I guess its the pace line that you're bothered about? You are rating relatively high at ca 35 but as its a "race" and there's no x scale I'm just guessing thats for 2k?? If so r35 is very much the norm - if its 5k that's high.

The pace line varies much more. This simply means you are not putting the same effort into every stroke. When inexperienced its quite hard to get every stroke the same. There's a clear tail off in the third quarter - basically when you got tired, so no real surprise. There's no magic to keeping a strong stroke - you just have to keep training it so that it becomes what you do. Properly expert experienced ergers like Nick can pick a rate and pace and keep his pace within .1 of a split over 10k. Most of us can't do that but we can maintain a flatter line than yours. You'll be able to aswell by completing training pieces at a set rate and pace. Indeed you can play with it as something to keep the interest/concentration on the long slow stuff we all have to do as base work. On several of the pieces I do I deliberately change the pace every minute usually keeping the rate the same just to add variety. Other times I change the pace and rate....and sometimes I just try for the totally flat lines of constant pace/rate. Easy enough to play with at training speeds but not when doing a race or TT.

[MysticMelody]

congrats on completing your first race! It's totally normal to notice differences in your race graph compared to others, especially as a newbie. The funky second half could be due to a variety of factors like fatigue, technique, or pacing strategy. To improve, try focusing on maintaining consistent technique throughout the race and gradually building your endurance. Also, analyze your race data to pinpoint areas for improvement. And don't hesitate to ask your coach or experienced rowers for feedback—they're a wealth of knowledge. Keep at it, and you'll see improvements with time and practice!