Long Beach Sprints * WR * for Spenger

[mikvan52]

These times jump out immediately:

Vet. Men (80+ yrs.) Hvy. & Ltwt. Robert Spenger 08:15.3 02:03.8 LBRA
1 84 years young (*unofficial WR due to current C2 rules)

Vet. Ltwt. Women (55-59 yrs.) Joan Van Blom 07:38.8 01:54.7 LBRA 1 57

Vet. Men (70-74 yrs.) Hvy. & Ltwt. Joe Newman 07:38.1 01:54.5 LBRA 1 70

Vet. Men (65-69 yrs.) John Boyle 07:19.7 01:49.9 Unaffiliated 1 65

Vet. Ltwt Men (60-64 yrs.) Timothy Foley 07:18.5 01:49.6 Lehigh University 1 61

Vet. Men (55-59 yrs.) Steve Krum 06:24.3 01:36.1 Spectrum 1 55

Senior Men (40-49 yrs.) Ron Long 06:14.0 01:33.5 Rowbics 1 41

Masters Men (30-39 yrs.) Jack Nunn 06:10.1 01:32.5 Rowbics 1 30


shame on me for not noting the other top women...
Follow the links from the Racing tab at the C2 main site.
THe .pdf takes a while to load

[johnlvs2run]

Way to go, Bob!

84 years of age... that is quite inspirational.

[NavigationHazard]

Bob can supply the correct date of birth. However I'm under the impression that he's now 85.

Why wouldn't his result be a WR, assuming it's ratified by C2? Not only was it a sanctioned event, a C2 representative attended.

[mikvan52]

You're right, Nav: I forgot about the sanctioning thing.

The two thing that seem to matter these days (in reality) are #1: THe stopped fan and #2 Race starting software (timer starts before you do).

[NavigationHazard]

You're right, Nav: I forgot about the sanctioning thing.

The two thing that seem to matter these days (in reality) are #1: THe stopped fan and #2 Race starting software (timer starts before you do).

For LWs, I think there's also the issue of a verified weigh-in under proper weigh-in conditions. And at a sanctioned race using the venue software, you're presumably not going to get people mistakenly (or willfully) rowing on misconfigured monitors.

I'd put the race-start bit more as "you start when the timer tells you to go rather than the timing starts when you go."

[mikvan52]

Anyway:
Hats of to Spenger: A time like that is truly remarkable: a testimony to his long years of great rowing!

[johnlvs2run]

I'd put the race-start bit more as "you start when the timer tells you to go rather than the timing starts when you go."

Yes, and the display telling you to go, lags behind the starting of the time.

Which makes Bob's rowing all the more impressive.

[Citroen]

Yes, and the display telling you to go, lags behind the starting of the time.

That's the subtle difference between a stand-alone ergo (PM2/PM3/PM4) and a wired ergo (PM3 or PM4).

With a wired ergo the clock starts, the display shows ROW, the rower responds and starts pulling the first stroke. Anywhere from 0.5 to 0.7 seconds elapse between the clock/row display and the first stroke.

With a stand-alone ergo the PM sits in a ready, but idle state until it detects the acceleration of the flywheel for the first stroke, at that time the clock starts.

On a PM4 you can run a wireless race with one to eight other machines, that will get the same delay as a wired ergo.

That's one reason why WRs should only count at C2 sanctioned events running with wired ergos and the venue racing software. The other being the need to confirm the LWts weighing in at below 165# or 135#.

The more important thing about this thread is the Bob has excelled himself and set an incredible new target for the 85+ LWts. We should be congratulating him on that result rather than quibbling about its validity.

[michaelb]

Awesome row Bob. Is this an official WR, or is there some reason it won't be honored?

[Bob S.]

The more important thing about this thread is the Bob has excelled himself and set an incredible new target for the 85+ LWts./

A couple of corrections are in order here. I am, indeed, 85 years of age, born in September of 1924. I rowed as a heavyweight yesterday - not as a LWt. My weight has been a bit below 165# on a few occasions in the past couple of months, but it usually ranges from 166-173, depending on the of day and on recent activities. I used to go for light weight and missed it by a half a pound on just one occasion out of about a dozen. It didn't matter at the time because it was my second satellite race of that season (1997?) and I had already qualified at the first indoor regatta.

JoanVB was kidding me after the race about going LWT at Boston so that I could get that WR as well. I had already thought of that but didn't consider it seriously. There is no really good reason to do it and I have no particular desire to stick to a regimen that insure that I would be at weight on race day. For one thing, I make a strong effort to avoid dehydration, tanking up with water - just plain water - at every opportunity. I was advised by a physician to drink at least three quarts a day and I have come fairly close to sticking to that since that time. Besides - I would like to feel free to pig out at the C2 shindig the day before the C-Bs.

In the ancient age brackets there no longer seems to be any weight advantage. For my bracket, the current LWt WR is 1.7" faster than the HWt and in the 80-84 group the LWt is 3.5 seconds faster than the HWt. The current 80-84 HWt holder himself, Dean Smith, had previously always rowed as a LWt. His current HWt WR is about 12" faster than the previous record which was set by a true HWt, Osborne, who is well over 6' tall and quite lean, but probably about 190#.

I don't believe that my time is official yet. It had not shown up on my logbook yet when I last checked, so it has not yet been entered by the folks at C2 who are the ones that would note is as "Race." I don't even have it on my log card, because you can't use one in the race venue machines. The only proof I have is the online publication of the Beach Sprints results.

At least I can enter it in the nonathlon scores where it should pick up about 30 points or so to add to the 51 that I got Friday for my new 500m and 1K times.

Bob S.

P.S. Usually new WRs are not entered into the official list until the end of the season, April 30. So there is always the possibility that someone will come in out of nowhere and snatch it away. So I just have to keep my fingers crossed (except when rowing) until that time. Three years ago, I bested a long standing 80+ HWT WR at Long Beach, but it didn't make it into the record list because Osborne beat that time 3 weeks later at the C-Bs. I was on the next erg in that event and he clobbered me by "a half length of open water" (i.e. 3.0" which would be about 12m in an eight minute 2K). I was a second or so off my own previous time in that race. Dean Smith, still rowing as lightweight at that time soundly beat both of us "heavyweights."

[bama]

inspiring

[Citroen]

I don't believe that my time is official yet. It had not shown up on my logbook yet when I last checked, so it has not yet been entered by the folks at C2 who are the ones that would note is as "Race." I don't even have it on my log card, because you can't use one in the race venue machines. The only proof I have is the online publication of the Beach Sprints results.

Someone needs to send an email to dena [at] concept2 [dot] com to get your result on the listings.

[Bob S.]

I don't believe that my time is official yet. It had not shown up on my logbook yet when I last checked, so it has not yet been entered by the folks at C2 who are the ones that would note is as "Race." I don't even have it on my log card, because you can't use one in the race venue machines. The only proof I have is the online publication of the Beach Sprints results.

Someone needs to send an email to dena [at] concept2 [dot] com to get your result on the listings.

As it turns out, there is a problem involved. The results posted by LBRA for the Beach sprints had me down as 84, although I turned 85 last September. Old records would show clearly that I was in the 80+ bracket at the 2005 C-B and in the 70+ bracket at the 1995 C-B, so I assume that it will eventually get squared away.

Bob S.

[johnlvs2run]

Anywhere from 0.5 to 0.7 seconds elapse between the clock/row display and the first stroke.

That's one reason why WRs should only count at C2 sanctioned events running with wired ergos and the venue racing software.

I don't know how you come to that conclusion.

Your information of the delay being .5 to .7 seconds is interesting. However, people have reported the delay being as long as 2 seconds, therefore losing 2 seconds between the timer starting and the display of GO, this having nothing to do with actual rowing. Another factor is that this varies between individual monitors, and within each individual monitor.

It seems to me that rowers should have the opportunity to start when the time starts, not at some artibrary time thereafter, when the display gets around to showing the GO. I agree that having the time start when the rower starts will be faster. Sure it is faster, because there is no delay in between. There should be no delay in between!

Were there a better way, for example a light (or sound, not as good) signifying the start - with no delay - that would work, as is done in all international competitions. In downhill skiing for example, there is no .5 to 2 second delay for each skier, in fact the difference between them is measured in hundreths of a second. I am not privy to the details of ski timing, but wonder if there is a light sensor at the start and finish to ensure the time of the runs is accurate. In any case, there is no delay.

My rating of the ways to time the competitions are as follows:

BEST: time starts when the rower starts - a go signal could still be given for all rowers, with each rower needing to start immediately (within 3 seconds) at the signal, but having the time for each individual machine start when the rower does;

GOOD: have a starting signal (light or sound) for the entire race, separate from the timing, the time and rowers all starting at the same time, with the signal;

TERRIBLE: .5 to 2 second delay from start of time to rower opportunity to start, which is the system currently being used.

[Citroen]

Anywhere from 0.5 to 0.7 seconds elapse between the clock/row display and the first stroke.

That's one reason why WRs should only count at C2 sanctioned events running with wired ergos and the venue racing software.

I don't know how you come to that conclusion.

Your information of the delay being .5 to .7 seconds is interesting.

That's done by analysis of the stroke data that can be saved by the venue racing software.

If you look at the first few records you see a delay until the first stroke is recorded. But we're unsure if that's simply a software feature or a realistic delay.

The only way to be sure would be a stand-alone ergo wired with a splitter to a PM4 and to a computer running Paul Smith's ergmonitor software (or an oscilloscope) compared to a wired ergo in the same configuration compared to a PM4 running a wireless race same way. We'll assume the warm body on the ergo has a good fast start and can pull evenly paced intervals from a dead stopped fan.

I don't have ergmonitor, so someone else (I'll let you guess the candidate) will be conducting those three experiments for us.

Here's my stroke data from BIRC 2009:

Code: Select all

Interval,PM3,Time,Meters,Current_Pace,Stroke_Rate,Heart_Rate
,Dougie Lawson   M45-49L,0.0,0,0,0,0
,,1.0,0,0,0,0
,,2.0,0,121,0,0
,,3.0,3.1,121,0,0

albeit that I'm not a representative sample.