Question about Stroke Rate for Ladies

RowtheRockies · Post by **RowtheRockies** » February 5th, 2008, 12:28 pm

Hello,

Our office fitness center just received a concept 2 model D. There has been a fair bit of interest and I have showed several people proper technique, etc. What I am not sure is what rate ladies should do all purpose training steady state training at. I generally do steady state at 20 -22 spm's should women shoot for the same or slightly higher stroke rate?

Also, any resources (obviously this thread) for women starting out in rowing?? Training Plans, etc.

Thanks,

Rich

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » February 5th, 2008, 4:56 pm

Post the same question over on http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4820 where the European Ladies hang out.

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » February 5th, 2008, 5:52 pm

There is no reason a women would have a different stroke rating then a man, all other things being equal. It will depend on their size, fitness, and preferences. Generally they should have a lower drag factor.

For novices, I'd start them in the 20-24 range. Until their technique is good, they are likely to find it difficult to row below 18. Novices will be able to row at high rating but not with good technique.

RowtheRockies · Post by **RowtheRockies** » February 5th, 2008, 7:44 pm

Citroen wrote:Post the same question over on http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4820 where the European Ladies hang out.

If only the site were up....

MomofJBN · Post by **MomofJBN** » February 5th, 2008, 8:32 pm

I'll agree w/Nosmo - 20-24 is probably a good target range to start with. I do a higher spm for a sprint, but in the 22 - 25 range for "steady state."

Obviously, form is the most important thing to teach them. Then they will fall into their own rhythm.

Schenley

Ducatista · Post by **Ducatista** » February 5th, 2008, 9:17 pm

I never would've taken to the erg if I'd started in the low 20s. ZzzzzzzzZzzzzzzZzzzzzzzz...

My fledgling attempts were in the high 20s up to 30, and that rate gave me great rhythmic feedback that kept me coming back to the erg.

I'm no paragon of technique, to be sure; and to this day, I find anything under 25 to be tedious as hell. That's worked for me, though. Many millions into it, I'm still happily rolling along at 26-30, even a little higher sometimes now with my slides.

grams · Post by **grams** » February 6th, 2008, 12:09 pm

Here is what has worked for me. I don't go for speed as much as fitness and weight loss. I need to do a steady-state exercise for a minimum of 45 mins a session in order to lose/maintain weight. So I do a 'speed' piece only about once a week.

My advice:

BEFORE YOU START:
Set up the machine.
1. Put the foot pads at the right height for you. You can experiment to find the best position by erging a bit using different positions and checking your speed/watts while rowing. The best position is usually the most efficient.

2. Use a seat pad. Lots of portable ones out there, I have a gel pad for home use, and bubble wrap when I travel.

3. Check the resistance setting. Gym ergs are used by folks who want to get a hard and fast workout (or there is a time limit), so when I am in a health club the resistance is usually set to the max at 10. Not good for little old ladies' backs to pull that hard. Concept2 recommends setting the lever to 2 1/2 to 3 1/2. Check the drag factor (DF) number on the meter. I use a low one of 95 now. Anywhere from 95 to 125 is ok. Whatever feels right and you are not overusing your back to maintain the stroke.

4. Have water and some energy food near the erg. I hit a minor 'wall' at 30-45 minutes, when I have used up my stored energy and am switching over to burning fat. My energy food is some glucose tablets. They are sold in drug stores for diabetics. I pop a couple and get past the low point and am good to go for another 15-30 minutes.

WORKING OUT:
Check the instructions for a proper stroke on the C2 site first.

Start off slow to warm up and get your heart rate up. It takes me 10 minutes.

Use a strokes per minute between 20 - 22 good for regular workouts. This sounds easy, however if you do your workouts 'strapless' (see below) it is about right. My lung capacity is small relative to my muscle mass (is this a female characteristic or just me?) so a stroke rate above 25 leaves me on the floor way before 45 minutes.

Try for 10 meters/stroke.Watch the distance per stroke on the meter to get the rhythm.

The glide to the front should take about twice as long as the push away. Your breathing should match. Exhale when pushing away and inhale during the glide back. I often do a exhale-inhale-exhale on the return if I am working hard. Again its a lung capacity problem. If you take a high blood pressure med it can affect your breathing too.

Once you get the feel of the stroke, try rowing without using the foot straps. Doing this will force you to use your ab muscles more to come forward. Strengthening the ab muscles will help keep you from overcompensating with your back. Remember to keep your back straight and head level.

Set a time goal and then don't keep your eyes glued to the PM numbers. You will then be able to concentrate more on perfecting your stroke, and less on the speed thing. Find something else to do. I-Pods are great in a gym. Or watch their TV or do a zen thing, paying attention to each part of your body and meditating on your energy flow. This is quality time just for yourself. Really get into it and you won't be bored.

One session a week I work on bettering my numbers, and the other sessions I try not to look at the meter. I take a peek towards the end of my 'don't look' sessions, but not before.

When going for a speed piece you should increase the resistance a little, use a faster stroke rate, and strap in.

I started erging in 1/2 hour sessions, which felt really long-then 45 minutes, then an hour, then half marathons once a week(1 hour 50 mins) and then did my first marathon (4 hours) Of course I have my own erg, however in most health clubs the ergs are underused so I can arrange to use the machine for as long as I want.

My times are slow by some standards, but then I'm 5' 2" 140 lbs, female, and 65 years old. They hold up well on the Nonathlon with others in my age category.

Let us know what works and doesn't work for you.

grams

RowtheRockies · Post by **RowtheRockies** » February 6th, 2008, 12:58 pm

Grams,

Great suggestions!! Thanks, I had not thought of the foot stretchers!

Thanks everyone for responding, I appreciate it.

Rich

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » February 6th, 2008, 1:22 pm

You can use the low rates if all the women are 6'5 to 6'8, or if they won't mind getting sore wrists and injuries.

Otherwise it is best to have the rating keep moving along, so there is a balance between drive and recovery, and there is not an excessive time for recovery.

It is good to focus on their form, rhythm and style, and not so much on the rating.

Ducatista · Post by **Ducatista** » February 6th, 2008, 4:53 pm

John Rupp wrote:You can use the low rates if all the women are 6'5 to 6'8...

You can't do a straight-up height correlation. For men and women of a height, women typically have longer legs. I'm only 5'11, but my inseam's 36.

urowgirl · Post by **urowgirl** » February 6th, 2008, 8:55 pm

Nosmo wrote: For novices, I'd start them in the 20-24 range. Until their technique is good, they are likely to find it difficult to row below 18. Novices will be able to row at high rating but not with good technique.

OK, I am new to all this; got my D mid January. Am I to glean from this that it is better to go slow? I am up to 40 minutes, about 28 spm and get about 7800 meters, damper on 2.5 with a C - Breeze. Is this bad/wrong? I have been very conscience of my technique. I think I am doing it correctly, but who knows? Are you saying that it is good to go at 18 spm, but wouldn't your meters be fewer? I'm sure you pro's understand, but can you put this in laymans terms?

Just trying to understand - thanks

Ducatista · Post by **Ducatista** » February 6th, 2008, 9:43 pm

I think it depends on what you want to accomplish. Wanna max out your 2K time? Conventional wisdom, as I understand it, suggests you should train at a low rating and work on maximizing your power per stroke. Then, in a race or trial, you'll jack up the rate, but still at the power per stroke you're accustomed to, and thus fly to victory and/or glory.

I don't give a rat's ass about my 2K time. I just want to enjoy 30-60 minutes of graceful, rhythmic, aerobic conditioning. For me, 26-31spm is perfect for that.

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » February 6th, 2008, 11:20 pm

Ducatista wrote:Conventional wisdom, as I understand it, suggests you should train at a low rating and work on maximizing your power per stroke. Then, in a race or trial, you'll jack up the rate, but still at the power per stroke you're accustomed to, and thus fly to victory and/or glory.

Ducatista, don't take this personally at all, but that statement just drives me crazy. That is not "conventional wisdom" as far as I understand it. That sounds more like the delusional rantings of a lunatic (who thankfully doesn't really post here anymore). I think it is a classic example of a false statement being repeated so often that it begins to ring true.

For the last year or two, this has mainly been discussed on the UK forum (but has been discussed extensively here as well), but from all of that I don't give any credence to the "power per stroke" theory, aka SPI, and have not seen any credible defense of it as it applies to magically being able to increase your rating to go faster in a race at the "same power per stroke". I think the conventional wisdom is and should be that to go faster you have to row harder.

Urowgirl, I think most people would feel that a stroke rate of 28 is high for a general training row of 40 minutes, when you are not racing. So, yes, over the next several months it probably would be good for you to work on taking less stokes per minute but generating more power each stroke and overall. There is some disagreement about the value of "low" stroke rates, say 20 and under, but for you settling into a comfortable pace in the 22-25 would be a good thing to work on.

One thing you could do right now to start properly is to unstrap your feet and row strapless. That should help lower your SR by reducing the tendency to drag yourself back up the slide with the straps.

Ducatista · Post by **Ducatista** » February 7th, 2008, 9:04 am

michaelb wrote:Ducatista, don't take this personally at all...

I don't, thanks. I figured those who might be slow to answer the original question would be lightning-quick to point out the error of my answer.

I may not race, but I do know strategy.

urowgirl · Post by **urowgirl** » February 7th, 2008, 9:32 am

michaelb wrote: Urowgirl, I think most people would feel that a stroke rate of 28 is high for a general training row of 40 minutes, when you are not racing. So, yes, over the next several months it probably would be good for you to work on taking less stokes per minute but generating more power each stroke and overall. There is some disagreement about the value of "low" stroke rates, say 20 and under, but for you settling into a comfortable pace in the 22-25 would be a good thing to work on.

One thing you could do right now to start properly is to unstrap your feet and row strapless. That should help lower your SR by reducing the tendency to drag yourself back up the slide with the straps.

When I started, I tried rowing barefoot and recieved a huge blister for my effort. To combat that, I now row with my shoes strapped in, but my feet on top of the shoes and straps. So, yes I am rowing strapless and glad to hear that that is a good thing.

Thanks for the insight, it is just the info I wanted to hear. I will work on slowing it down while increasing my power. That is accomplished by harder kick offs and stronger pulls?

Again, thanks.