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Concentric v Eccentric revisited
Posted: January 17th, 2025, 6:18 pm
by Dave Neve
Hello
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think one particular aspect of concentric and eccentric movements were mentioned previously.
Let's take the bench press as an example.
When I lower the bar down to my chest, the eccentric phase, it's not just the fact that I'm still pushing against the bar to stop it from coming down too hard on my chest that is beneficial.
The eccentric phase also allows you to tense the muscles that are about to push the bar back up again (the concentric phase). It's like you are tightening elastic bands (your muscles), in order for them to spring into action at the required moment.
Imagine for the sake of argument if a 150 kg bar/weights weighed nothing on the way down for a moment but once on your chest, it suddenly weights 150 kg again. You'd have a job pushing it back up as your body would not have been able to produce the necessary tension on the way down.
What I'm saying is that I think you can produce a lot more concentric force on a bench press movement with weights/machines that produce eccentric load, which is not the case with the StrengthErg.
Hope this is clear. What do you think?
Re: Concentric v Eccentric revisited
Posted: January 17th, 2025, 6:55 pm
by Sakly
Your scenarios are not comparable, as the strength erg does not apply 150kg at the start of the movement.
These are two completely different force curves in the concentric and both have their specific stimulus to the muscles.
Re: Concentric v Eccentric revisited
Posted: February 5th, 2025, 7:58 pm
by Disabled Veteran.
I have seen a lot of opinions on the StrengthErg.
I will give a few ways that this will help some not all. I am a disabled Veteran. I broke both ankles and had bones removed
Now you can not compare disability to another disability.
I need something like the StrengthErg for my legs so I can get some leg press. Plus chest and tri work out. I get cronic pain and at anytime that can cause me to lose a bar bell/dumb bell or cable style weight.
This could change PT for myself and others i know do to no weight required to reset if my legs give out. So push with my legs in a work out finally would be something I have been looking for.
Now second person I will mention here my son who is also 100% disabled Veteran. This would work great for him and others like him. He still in his mid 20's and his world is turned up side down do to his military Injuries. He has spine issues and seizers so being able to do bench or triciptes would be a blessing know no load. If he was to have a seizer he would do have any weights to fall on him or anyone helping him.
Has we have a concept 2 row this would help a lot of us n disabled Para world.
We hope to be able to add this to our home therapy work room. This very much needed. The upper body press and pull will help with my para hand peddle bike.
Why we do not go to a gym? PTSD, seziers, cronic pain is just the start. Biggest personal safety to ourselves and others around us.
This may not fit in everyone's workout world but in the youth and para world it would fit in fine.
Hope to be able to get one if these. Time to save money VA disability does not pay well. It may take sometime but today I set a goal to buy one. For now we keep using our concept 2 row.
Keep up the great job concept 2.
Re: Concentric v Eccentric revisited
Posted: February 6th, 2025, 11:49 am
by Joebasscat
Disabled Veteran. wrote: ↑February 5th, 2025, 7:58 pm
I have seen a lot of opinions on the StrengthErg.
I will give a few ways that this will help some not all. I am a disabled Veteran. I broke both ankles and had bones removed
Now you can not compare disability to another disability.
I need something like the StrengthErg for my legs so I can get some leg press. Plus chest and tri work out. I get cronic pain and at anytime that can cause me to lose a bar bell/dumb bell or cable style weight.
This could change PT for myself and others i know do to no weight required to reset if my legs give out. So push with my legs in a work out finally would be something I have been looking for.
Now second person I will mention here my son who is also 100% disabled Veteran. This would work great for him and others like him. He still in his mid 20's and his world is turned up side down do to his military Injuries. He has spine issues and seizers so being able to do bench or triciptes would be a blessing know no load. If he was to have a seizer he would do have any weights to fall on him or anyone helping him.
Has we have a concept 2 row this would help a lot of us n disabled Para world.
We hope to be able to add this to our home therapy work room. This very much needed. The upper body press and pull will help with my para hand peddle bike.
Why we do not go to a gym? PTSD, seziers, cronic pain is just the start. Biggest personal safety to ourselves and others around us.
This may not fit in everyone's workout world but in the youth and para world it would fit in fine.
Hope to be able to get one if these. Time to save money VA disability does not pay well. It may take sometime but today I set a goal to buy one. For now we keep using our concept 2 row.
Keep up the great job concept 2.
Thank you both for your service and the sacrifices you have made. Happy to hear the StrengthErg may be a great benefit to you!
Re: Concentric v Eccentric revisited
Posted: February 10th, 2025, 1:10 pm
by Dave Neve
Disabled Veteran. wrote: ↑February 5th, 2025, 7:58 pm
I have seen a lot of opinions on the StrengthErg.
I will give a few ways that this will help some not all. I am a disabled Veteran. I broke both ankles and had bones removed
Now you can not compare disability to another disability.
I need something like the StrengthErg for my legs so I can get some leg press. Plus chest and tri work out. I get cronic pain and at anytime that can cause me to lose a bar bell/dumb bell or cable style weight.
This could change PT for myself and others i know do to no weight required to reset if my legs give out. So push with my legs in a work out finally would be something I have been looking for.
Now second person I will mention here my son who is also 100% disabled Veteran. This would work great for him and others like him. He still in his mid 20's and his world is turned up side down do to his military Injuries. He has spine issues and seizers so being able to do bench or triciptes would be a blessing know no load. If he was to have a seizer he would do have any weights to fall on him or anyone helping him.
Has we have a concept 2 row this would help a lot of us n disabled Para world.
We hope to be able to add this to our home therapy work room. This very much needed. The upper body press and pull will help with my para hand peddle bike.
Why we do not go to a gym? PTSD, seziers, cronic pain is just the start. Biggest personal safety to ourselves and others around us.
This may not fit in everyone's workout world but in the youth and para world it would fit in fine.
Hope to be able to get one if these. Time to save money VA disability does not pay well. It may take sometime but today I set a goal to buy one. For now we keep using our concept 2 row.
Keep up the great job concept 2.
Hello Disabled Veteran and all
I've taken note of this
I think these are rather special circumstances where your strength could abandon you completely in the blink of an eye and no eccentric load could be a plus point rather than a minus one.
But the StrengthErg was not made or marketed for such a specific group of users (liable to seizures etc)
It did get me wondering though about other exercises/machines for such people and how a weight might not exert any eccentric load in case of an epileptic attack etc.
Very interesting. Thanks for pointing this out
Re: Concentric v Eccentric revisited
Posted: February 10th, 2025, 6:07 pm
by gvcormac
Since this thread started, I have read a bit of the literature.
It appears there is no conclusive evidence that eccentric is better than concentric, at the same load. Where eccentric may have an advantage is that it is possible to generate greater eccentric than concentric force.
I messed up my elbows (climber's/golfers elbow) doing reverse pull-ups. Your tendons and ligaments are no stronger for eccentric, and you can't easily back off when you exceed their capacity.
My elbows are now fine, and I don't do inverse pullups anymore.
As I have noted earlier, one of the attractions of the Strength Erg is that you can pull as hard as you're able, and back off instantly if you aren't.
I'll reserve judgment on how useful the Strength Erg is. I will probably buy one because I like the idea of measuring your force, rather than prescribing it in advance.
Re: Concentric v Eccentric revisited
Posted: February 10th, 2025, 7:05 pm
by JaapvanE
gvcormac wrote: ↑February 10th, 2025, 6:07 pm
As I have noted earlier, one of the attractions of the Strength Erg is that you can pull as hard as you're able, and back off instantly if you aren't.
I'll reserve judgment on how useful the Strength Erg is. I will probably buy one because I like the idea of measuring your force, rather than prescribing it in advance.
There are some alternatives which might be more interesting. These use electronic tension, and these can create concentric and eccentric load, but can also release that load as soon as a user seems to be overloaded. These are more expensive, but also more flexible machines as they can adapt the load to specific positions (i.e. dynamically simulate specific load profiles). For example, true negative training (this is actually slightly overloading on the eccentric phase) might be possible here.
Re: Concentric v Eccentric revisited
Posted: February 10th, 2025, 7:59 pm
by gvcormac
JaapvanE wrote: ↑February 10th, 2025, 7:05 pm
gvcormac wrote: ↑February 10th, 2025, 6:07 pm
As I have noted earlier, one of the attractions of the Strength Erg is that you can pull as hard as you're able, and back off instantly if you aren't.
I'll reserve judgment on how useful the Strength Erg is. I will probably buy one because I like the idea of measuring your force, rather than prescribing it in advance.
There are some alternatives which might be more interesting. These use electronic tension, and these can create concentric and eccentric load, but can also release that load as soon as a user seems to be overloaded. These are more expensive, but also more flexible machines as they can adapt the load to specific positions (i.e. dynamically simulate specific load profiles). For example, true negative training (this is actually slightly overloading on the eccentric phase) might be possible here.
Indeed. Prior to seeing the StrengthErg, I saw a machine that was computer controlled and I thought was very attractive, but astronomically expensive (>>10K US$). I'll see if I can find the description.