Concept2 Forum

Hello
I have an issue with connection with Garmin Fenix 6x. I paired the Watch with the BikeERG but when I open the app indoor bike on the Watch it shows an unreal speed . Does anyone knows how to adjust this ?
Thanks

I have a Garmin Forerunner 945 which I use with both an Erg and BikeErg. I use ErgIQ on the watch and the concept2 app on the phone. The rower has been pretty stable, although occasionally it will drop phone connection during a session. Last time it did this I just had the watch data, which showed I'd rowed at some phenomenal speed similar to the speed you witnessed.
For the bike, the speed has always been reliable, the main issue I have is initial connectivity to the phone and/or watch, which can take up to 10 minutes ! I updated the bikeErg firmware last night, so will be trying it out in a few minutes.

Phil P

Thought I'd add an update. Since the PM5 firmware update, connectivity to my Garmin (945) has stopped completely. It simply never connects. Connectivity to my iphone is hit and miss. I can still waste up to 10 minutes trying every combination of buttons trying to the Ergdata to connect. I won't be updating my PM5 on the rower any time soon for sure.

Phil P

Thought I'd post a further update as you my recent experiences, still using Forerunner 945 with the BikeErg (and Rower)

Since Garmin updated their watch software to include better integration with Indoor Trainers (v7 I think), it is this software with will pair with the BikeErg immediately you power on the PM5, providing the watch is not on the "home" time screen. More often than not, this will cause the Concept 2 app not to connect to the PM5. Disabling and enabling Apps ("Connect" button) on the PM5 doesn't seem to clear this, but a power off and on again does. The app connects whilst the Garmin still seems to remain connected. As long as both connect then I can get on and train, as long as I remember to start the watch.

So for the BikeErg, the ErgIQ Garmin plugin is irrelevant now.

For the C2 rower, I haven''t updated the formware as I see no need to, and ErgIQ works fine.

Just wondering about the best way (in 2023) to connect the Fenix 6 Pro Solar to the BikeErg; ideally, I'd like to have all data fields accurate in both my C2 Logbook and Garmin Connect (with no duplicate workouts).

Looks as though there are many options, with each having one drawback or another; below are two I'm considering:

• I could link my C2 Logbook to Garmin Connect (recording my workouts as usual, via USB stick) and use 'Bike Indoor' as the activity (on the watch), with ANT+ as the connection for the HR (on the PM5); however I worry that this might end up with two entries in Garmin Connect: the correct one sent from the C2 Logbook, and the other (HR correct but all other stats estimated) from the watch; alternatively

• I could attempt to add the PM5 to the Garmin as a 'fitness equipment (FE)' sensor (connection will then be via ANT+ FE-C, rather than simply ANT+), however this time 'Bike Indoor' should (I think?) now take all the data from the PM5, whilst also adding HR to the PM5/C2 Logbook (recorded via USB but not linked to Garmin Connect); my concern here is that C2 only suggests this option for the RowErg, so not sure it's properly setup yet...

To further complicate matters, C2 states that 'Workouts shared via the Concept2 Online Logbook are not included in Garmin’s Training Status'; as a new Garmin user (Polar up till now) I'm not quite sure what that means, but obviously it doesn't sound ideal!

Finally, I'd rather avoid the ErgData app if possible; it just seems like another step to me, and the USB stick works well enough.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Cheers!

(C2 info,referenced above, can be found here: https://www.concept2.com/news/connectin ... ces-to-pm5)

Please note, I'm a RowErg user on an Epix, but the PM5 probably is similar enough that experiences there translate to the BikErg as well (but I have no practical experience with it)

RGS wrote: ↑

September 12th, 2023, 7:33 am

Looks as though there are many options, with each having one drawback or another; below are two I'm considering:

• I could link my C2 Logbook to Garmin Connect (recording my workouts as usual, via USB stick) and use 'Bike Indoor' as the activity (on the watch), with ANT+ as the connection for the HR (on the PM5); however I worry that this might end up with two entries in Garmin Connect: the correct one sent from the C2 Logbook, and the other (HR correct but all other stats estimated) from the watch; alternatively

• I could attempt to add the PM5 to the Garmin as a 'fitness equipment (FE)' sensor (connection will then be via ANT+ FE-C, rather than simply ANT+), however this time 'Bike Indoor' should (I think?) now take all the data from the PM5, whilst also adding HR to the PM5/C2 Logbook (recorded via USB but not linked to Garmin Connect); my concern here is that C2 only suggests this option for the RowErg, so not sure it's properly setup yet...

On the RowErg, I used both methods, but I kept the ANT+ connection and disabled the automatic upload. The ANT+ indeed provides a lot of data from the PM5, but also includes internal Garmin fields like HR, Temperature and breathing. So from a data perspective, the ANT+ connection is much more interesting (the C2 route just provides HR, Pace and strokerate (Cadance).

RGS wrote: ↑

September 12th, 2023, 7:33 am

To further complicate matters, C2 states that 'Workouts shared via the Concept2 Online Logbook are not included in Garmin’s Training Status'; as a new Garmin user (Polar up till now) I'm not quite sure what that means, but obviously it doesn't sound ideal!

A Garmin watch calculates training status (whether you are ready to train again, what your recovery time is, etc..). If the watch is bypassed in the datastream (because C2 uploads to the Garmin cloud), they will not be accurate. Especially for things like training load and recovery time, you want your watch to at least see the exercise and how hard it was.

RGS wrote: ↑

September 12th, 2023, 7:33 am

Finally, I'd rather avoid the ErgData app if possible; it just seems like another step to me, and the USB stick works well enough.

I actually like the ErgData app: it provides a quick way to program the PM5 with a target distance, etc. And it keeps an additional log, which can come in handy.

Thanks for all the info; just a few more Qs if you don't mind:

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

September 12th, 2023, 8:00 am

On the RowErg, I used both methods, but I kept the ANT+ connection and disabled the automatic upload. The ANT+ indeed provides a lot of data from the PM5, but also includes internal Garmin fields like HR, Temperature and breathing. So from a data perspective, the ANT+ connection is much more interesting (the C2 route just provides HR, Pace and strokerate (Cadance).

So you connect the watch via ANT+ only (not ANT+ FE-C) and then disable the watch from automatically uploading the workout; is that correct, and if so how'd you get the data to both Garmin Connect and the C2 Logbook?

I'm OK with just seeing the PM5-recorded stats + HR on the C2 Logbook, but ideally would like at least that amount of data on Garmin Connect.

When my wife used her Garmin (different model) with the BikeErg, I believe Garmin Connect showed the HR accurately (obviously!) but all other fields, including distance, were estimates. The data recorded via the PM5 is on her C2 Logbook, but if that's then shared with Garmin Connect she'd have a duplicate workout (and if only using the C2 one without uploading from the watch, some data would be missing, and Garmin's Training Status would be incorrect...).

Presumably, even when setup correctly, the exact time will always be off by a bit as it'll go from when you start/stop the workout on the watch rather than the precise time from the PM5, or can that be configured?

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

September 12th, 2023, 8:00 am

A Garmin watch calculates training status (whether you are ready to train again, what your recovery time is, etc..). If the watch is bypassed in the datastream (because C2 uploads to the Garmin cloud), they will not be accurate. Especially for things like training load and recovery time, you want your watch to at least see the exercise and how hard it was.

Understood and makes sense ('Recovery Status' in Polar terminology).

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

September 12th, 2023, 8:00 am

I actually like the ErgData app: it provides a quick way to program the PM5 with a target distance, etc. And it keeps an additional log, which can come in handy.

Yup, I know it's quite popular, just unnecessary for me; USB stick works well, can see all I need on the PM5 display and find it quick and easy to setup (hopefully PM6 will have a built-in Wi-Fi option).

Though I couldn't find it, I seem to recall reading that the BikeErg's PM5 software was lagging behind the RowErg's (specifically in terms of the Garmin connection), so not sure they're quite as similar as one might expect. Love the RowErg, by the way (over 10 million meters on it); just not got access to one at the mo, unfortunately.

Thanks again!

RGS wrote: ↑

September 12th, 2023, 9:14 am

So you connect the watch via ANT+ only (not ANT+ FE-C) and then disable the watch from automatically uploading the workout; is that correct, and if so how'd you get the data to both Garmin Connect and the C2 Logbook?

I'm OK with just seeing the PM5-recorded stats + HR on the C2 Logbook, but ideally would like at least that amount of data on Garmin Connect.

No, I let the watch automatically upload to Garmin. And Iet the PM5 upload to C2 logbook, but I blocked C2 logbook from uploading to Garmin.

The alternative is connecting the PM5 with ErgData and let ErgData push it to Garmin. On the watch you can still record the session, but discard it instead of saving it. Then training load will be recorded as well.

RGS wrote: ↑

September 12th, 2023, 9:14 am

When my wife used her Garmin (different model) with the BikeErg, I believe Garmin Connect showed the HR accurately (obviously!) but all other fields, including distance, were estimates. The data recorded via the PM5 is on her C2 Logbook, but if that's then shared with Garmin Connect she'd have a duplicate workout (and if only using the C2 one without uploading from the watch, some data would be missing, and Garmin's Training Status would be incorrect...).

If done correctly, the watch will read the distance from the PM5. As said, I disconnected the C2 logbook upload to Garmin.

RGS wrote: ↑

September 12th, 2023, 9:14 am

Presumably, even when setup correctly, the exact time will always be off by a bit as it'll go from when you start/stop the workout on the watch rather than the precise time from the PM5, or can that be configured?

I can't find it, but I'm still looking. It might start by itself when connected and seeing speed, but I haven't tried it.

Thanks very much for that, JaapvanE.

Was a bit confused as I believe you actually have to enable the C2 Logbook to share the workout with Garmin Connect, rather than disable it (ie off by default), though maybe it's different when using ErgData. I'll give it a go tomorrow with the settings you suggest (+ connections as below) and hopefully everything will work as expected.

One last item of note (more for anyone else reading this in future, hopefully) but the following info is from C2:

ANT+ for the BikeErg

The PM5 can be set up as a power sensor on your Garmin Watch for cycling. On the PM5, these options can be found under “CONNECT” on the Main Menu. You can connect via ANT+ PWR and ANT+ SPD/CAD for power, speed and cadence data.(You can select both options on the Connect screen.) To do this, add the PM5 as a new sensor on your watch. You’ll need to reference Garmin support for your exact model and instructions. If your Garmin watch requires a Wheel Size under the Sensor settings, you can manually adjust the size to 2000mm.

Once connected with ANT+, you can record data using the “Bike Indoor” option that is available on some Garmin watches. Workouts that use "Bike Indoor" in this way will be included in Garmin’s Training Status, but do not update to the Concept2 Online Logbook.

Thanks again for all the help!

Well, I gave this a go today but unfortunately the watch didn't seem able to take either distance or time from the PM5; the former (obviously an estimate) was totally off, and the latter remains a manual procedure (ie the duration between pressing start/stop on the watch, rather than automatically starting/stopping with the workout).

Though hardly the end of the world if I have to correct the time and distance manually on Garmin Connect, I was really hoping I wouldn't have to... (it is 2023 after all!).

On a more positive note: power, speed and cadence all seemed to work OK, and the PM5 had no probs getting the HR from the watch.

Any thoughts regarding the time and distance issue, much appreciated!

RGS wrote: ↑

September 18th, 2023, 1:12 pm

Any thoughts regarding the time and distance issue, much appreciated!

What app were you running? Was it Concept2's Ergdata? If not, then try Ergdata (which works for any kit with a PM3 (with a cable), PM4 (with some restrictions) or PM5).

That should capture your whole workout on a stroke by stroke (pedal rotation by pedal rotation) basis.

RGS wrote: ↑

September 18th, 2023, 1:12 pm

Though hardly the end of the world if I have to correct the time and distance manually on Garmin Connect, I was really hoping I wouldn't have to... (it is 2023 after all!).

On a more positive note: power, speed and cadence all seemed to work OK, and the PM5 had no probs getting the HR from the watch.

Any thoughts regarding the time and distance issue, much appreciated!

Yeah, it is a bit awkward. In theory they should be able to start and stop aurltonatically. For me, the extra data is worth it, but I can imagine it frustrates people. I do define a workout with the distance, which seems to fix the distance.

Thanks, guys.

Not using any app, just the watch and the C2 Logbook (via USB); the watch grabs power, speed and cadence data from the PM5, but not time and distance.

All I was hoping for really was to get the exact time and distance recorded direct to the watch (as is the case with the PM5/C2 Logbook); not sure if this can be achieved by using ErgData as an intermediary but otherwise I don't feel the need for it.

JaapvanE, do you define your workout via Garmin Connect? I note you can set a custom distance, but presumably that'll only finish the workout when it thinks you've covered that distance (which of course is not accurate, as it's unable to get this info from the PM5). At this rate, it looks like I'm just going to have to edit both the time and distance fields for each workout on Garmin Connect; whilst not ideal, I presume this is doable?

Thanks again!

RGS wrote: ↑

September 19th, 2023, 6:52 am

Not using any app, just the watch and the C2 Logbook (via USB); the watch grabs power, speed and cadence data from the PM5, but not time and distance.

Time to install Ergdata, that gets full data and logs it at https://log.concept2.com automatically. No cables needed it uses BTLE (bluetooth low energy) with a PM5 and a modern phone.

Citroen wrote: ↑

September 19th, 2023, 7:07 am

RGS wrote: ↑

September 19th, 2023, 6:52 am

Not using any app, just the watch and the C2 Logbook (via USB); the watch grabs power, speed and cadence data from the PM5, but not time and distance.

Time to install Ergdata, that gets full data and logs it at https://log.concept2.com automatically. No cables needed it uses BTLE (bluetooth low energy) with a PM5 and a modern phone.

Depends what you are looking for. I must say Garmin logs a lot more usefull data (Epix Gen 2 also provides breathing rythem, distance per stroke, skin temperature, training load) then C2 does. If people are serious in multiple spirts, it is wise ro let the Garmin record the session, as training load is a very valuable metric in training planning.