Dead air when getting out of the seat

[robivison]

My ergBike arrived on Saturday. Truly a thing of beauty.

I had joined the waiting list back in October, when our local gym closed and I could no longer attend spin/RPM classes. Before or since, I had no chance to try out the ergBike.

As a long-time and quite zealous devotee of spin classes, my anticipation reached fever pitch by Saturday. I was going nuts without a bike.

Instant reaction to the ergBike: superbly engineered, and astonishing build quality.

Reaction having ridden it: oh heck, have I made a mistake? I simply cannot get out of the seat to climb, which leads to monotonous and painful exercise sessions - no chance to stretch the legs or straighten the back. Even on the highest resistance, the pedals do not come close to supporting my weight (110 kg), unless I am up at 60+ RPM, which I simply cannot achieve.

Is there anything I can do, or must I return the bike?

Has anyone encountered and overcome this issue?

Rob

[Cant Climb]

I stand all the time. Do entire sets of just standing for over and hour (with short interval breaks).
I do many of these sets at max resistance but also some at mid-resistance.

You may have to engage some other muscles to support your standing position.
This will lead to strength and fitness gains.
I don't see this as a negative just an adaptation.

If you want to sell BikeErg I don't think it would take much effort - but maybe hold on to it and adapt.

[CaseyClarke]

My ergBike arrived on Saturday. Truly a thing of beauty.

I had joined the waiting list back in October, when our local gym closed and I could no longer attend spin/RPM classes. Before or since, I had no chance to try out the ergBike.

As a long-time and quite zealous devotee of spin classes, my anticipation reached fever pitch by Saturday. I was going nuts without a bike.

Instant reaction to the ergBike: superbly engineered, and astonishing build quality.

Reaction having ridden it: oh heck, have I made a mistake? I simply cannot get out of the seat to climb, which leads to monotonous and painful exercise sessions - no chance to stretch the legs or straighten the back. Even on the highest resistance, the pedals do not come close to supporting my weight (110 kg), unless I am up at 60+ RPM, which I simply cannot achieve.

Is there anything I can do, or must I return the bike?

Has anyone encountered and overcome this issue?

Rob

Do you mean BikeErg? Not heard of an ErgBike before.

The pedals are made to support far heavier than you at 110kg, and I know plenty of riders who weigh this and more. What is it exactly that prevents you getting out the seat?

I've heard others complaining of a similar issue but without seeing a video of your set up and you pedalling it's hard to advise what to do/not to do. I have no issues with pedalling on any damper setting for short or long periods of time, so I think your issue is either technique or bike set up.

I ride with the handlebars as close to me as they come, and on the highest setting. That way you can hold the handlebars whilst standing and lean your bodyweight into the bars and take your butt off the seat and pedal standing.

[johnlvs2run]

I'm 74, and routinely stand every day on the Ergbike, usually for 15-20 seconds at a time. I normally finish time trials with periodic standing, especially when getting close to the finishes. The RPM ranges from 55-60 easy, 70-80 going faster, and 80 to 100 for sprints. That's all with lightweight running shoes and toe clips - no clipless pedals (not yet anyway).

I stand all the time. Do entire sets of just standing for over and hour (with short interval breaks).
I do many of these sets at max resistance but also some at mid-resistance.

That's interesting! What kinds of sets do you do for the hour, and how much is standing?
I'd like to try that myself.

I ride with the handlebars as close to me as they come, and on the highest setting. That way you can hold the handlebars whilst standing and lean your bodyweight into the bars and take your butt off the seat and pedal standing.

That's interesting too. Is your standing position quite close to your seated position?

[zij]

Commenting on a few things OP has raised..

- I am 108KG - not had a problem with weight.
- I'm using the BikeErg not as a spin bike but as an indoor trainer so I am sat on seat, feet pedaling away.
- Most of my rides are 90mins or more (longest 3h 20m) and quite often have to stand on pedals every 10-15 mins to give the seat bones a break.
- I have the dampener is around 4-5, drag factor about 100 works ideal for me - RPM around 80..
- I am 6ft5/196cm - and had to experiment with the handlebar position so that I can stand up on pedals if I need to..

If you are looking to stand up more, you would most likely need to increase the dampener level as otherwise there won't be enough resistance..

I'm not sure how much of a spin classes is stood on the pedals, but if a lot/most of it then perhaps the BikeErg isn't the best solution. If you are looking for having equivalent of a bike indoors/indoor trainer like Wahoo Kickr then you've made a good choice!

[robivison]

Sincere thanks for these replies.

Whilst spinning, where the attraction is the variety, time is spent out of the seat at a relatively low RPM, often at a higher resistance than the BikeErg can provide (at low RPM). A considerable amount of time is also typically spent moving repeatedly from seated to standing, often every 10 seconds or so, with significant changes of resistance, and this is also impractical on a BikeErg.

It seems from your replies that the BikeErg is not suitable to be used as a spin bike, unless your power/weight ratio is considerably higher than mine. I am in a small minority of folk who fit this description and thus this limitation is not widely known. It seems there are no short-term solutions, except increasing my power/weight ratio sufficiently to stand, which I cannot realistically hope to do in the month I have to make a decision whether to keep/return.

[Nomath]

The issues about the BikeErg in this post have been raised more often on this forum. Browsing through the topics, I find that critical questions about the suitability of the BikeErg for High-Intensity-Interval-Training (HIIT) and for training standing climbing have often been dismissed lightly.
Read e.g.
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=185154
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=186950
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=167548

I don't own a BikeErg but have considered buying one. I have done some research and from what I read and thought I like to add a few comments. But I lack own experience on a BikeErg.



Most cyclists use the gears of a bike to select a preferred cadence adapted to their pace, the force and direction of the wind and the gradients. From self-optimization or from reading, they have found out that the optimum cadence is at about 90 rpm. Most bikes enable you to shift to this cadence without penalty. From that freely chosen cadence you experience that the resistance depends on speed. On a level surface, air resistance dominates and power increases with speed to the third power (~v³). On a steep slope power increases with speed to the first power (~v).

Now consider the BikeErg. It doesn't have gears. Cadence is directly coupled to resistance and there is no free choice. Setting the damping is not comparable to gear shifting. Damping allows you to control the magnitude of the air resistance, similar to adjusting your body position from aero to sitting upright in free air, but not to freely adjust cadence. Power increases with speed by the third power (~v³).

In cycling, standing on the pedals is done for several reasons: to produce more power, to handle a short steeper section, to rest the muscles used while seated, to use body weight to help in a climb. Typically more upper body muscles are used and in raising your body mass cyclically. Typically, too, the heart starts to pump faster when you raise from the saddle. Typically, more force is applied at a lower cadence. The BikeErg responds in a different way. It increases the power much faster for a higher cadence (~v³) than we experience in real uphill cycling (~v).

One very critical review may be blunt: the verdict was that the BikeErg is good tool for fitness training, but unsuitable for group cycling classes and for training climbing with standing on the pedals. I got the impression that a BikeErg is more like riding a single-speed. Some enjoy it, others don't.

[johnlvs2run]

Whilst spinning, where the attraction is the variety, time is spent out of the seat at a relatively low RPM, often at a higher resistance than the BikeErg can provide (at low RPM).

Most spin bikes are fixed gear. Thus when you stop applying pressure the pedals keep going, allowing you to keep cycling without doing any work. There's a good explanation of that here, <-- which is probably what you're noticing. Also the spin bike cranks appear to be very short. <-- The Bikeerg is like a road bike, whereas you have to keep applying pressure to the pedals to keep going.

A considerable amount of time is also typically spent moving repeatedly from seated to standing, often every 10 seconds or so, with significant changes of resistance, and this is also impractical on a BikeErg.

How do you change the resistance on spin bike? I would find it very easy to stand and sit every 10 seconds or so on the Bikeerg, without changing the resistance of the damper, but by going much faster when standing - which automatically increases the resistance.

Are you saying your power to weight ratio is quite low? What relatively low RPM did you ride at on a spin bike? Also, what pace are you riding at on the Bikeerg? You could always increase the resistance on the Bikeerg by removing the mesh and/or cover, but I seriously doubt that you'd need to do that, especially if your power to weight ratio is quite low.

It seems there are no short-term solutions, except increasing my power/weight ratio sufficiently to stand, which I cannot realistically hope to do in the month I have to make a decision whether to keep/return.

I'm much lighter than you and find it quite easy to alternate standing and sitting. Maybe it's just something you need to practice and get used to, instead of relying on a fixed gear to do it for you. You could probably get used to doing this quite soon with some practice, but keep in mind the differences between a fixed gear spin bike designed for use in a class, vs a Bikeerg that's used for more serious training.

[johnlvs2run]

Now consider the BikeErg. It doesn't have gears.

The Bikeerg does have gears, simply by moving the damper. The difference compared to climbing hills is that a road bike rider HAS to keep changing gears to keep a similar resistance, while the Bikeerg rider does not have to keep changing them. You could if you wanted to, just reach down and move the damper, but there is usually no reason to do that.

The BikeErg responds in a different way. It increases the power much faster for a higher cadence than we experience in real uphill cycling.

If you increase the cadence on a road bike for given terrain, that also increases the power, so again there's no difference.

One very critical review[/url] may be blunt: the verdict was that ...

Many statements in that article are not correct.
The Bikeerg can be and is used in group cycling classes, and is excellent for training while standing on the pedals.
The seat can be adjusted forward / back plus tilted upward / downward, and can be changed to a different kind of seat.
Also, the pedals can be changed, which I've done. The only thing that can't be changed, quite unfortunately, is the crank size.
Operation of the Bikeerg is almost identical to a road bike. But if someone wants to have a fixed gear spin bike, that's not the same thing.

[robivison]

One very critical review may be blunt: the verdict was that the BikeErg is good tool for fitness training, but unsuitable for group cycling classes and for training climbing with standing on the pedals.

Thanks for your considered response and for pointing me to this review. Wish I'd seen it months ago. It nails the issue perfectly. Fundamentally, the BikeErg is unsuitable for the HIIT training (viewed here with disdain, seemingly) which countless millions of us undertake in Spin/RPM/StudioSweat classes.

The resistance unit is perfect for rowing. On the BikeErg it allows a steady form of cycling - it is an upmarket, super-robust trainer, in essence. It is not all things to all people, though, and it's a pity that more reviewers have not acknowledged this.

[Nomath]

Now consider the BikeErg. It doesn't have gears.

The Bikeerg does have gears, simply by moving the damper. ...

So you say that it is possible to cycle at 120W at my preferred cadence of 90 rpm.
What is the damper setting for that choice?

[btlifter]

Interesting points.

I'll add 1 more unsolicited perspective.

I do all sorts of sprints and intervals on my bike and have found that the pedals can easily support my weight (don't mind my signature, I'm knocking on 115kg by now). I have also found that that the highest drag is PLENTY of resistance for me. While I'm no world-class bike sprinter, I would suggest that my power output compares quite favourably to most.

On the other hand, I am in total agreement about the difficulty of effectively riding out of the saddle. I can get out no problem, but certainly don't enjoy the ride. However, I am unsure of technique refinement could change this.

[Ombrax]

no chance to stretch the legs or straighten the back.

Hi Rob,

You can stand on the BikeErg - just stop pedaling, level the crank arms and stand up.

That's what I do on a road bike when I feel like I need to stretch my legs a bit.

If you want to straighten you back just sit up. Let go of the bars if necessary.

[robivison]

To quantify the power/RPM I need to get out of the saddle on the highest BikeErg resistance setting: over 80 RPM, at which point I'm generating well over 600W, which I cannot sustain for more than a few tens of seconds at my current fitness levels (admittedly, not great); even then it's not all that smooth.

[johnlvs2run]

The Bikeerg does have gears, simply by moving the damper.

So you say that it is possible to cycle at 120W at my preferred cadence of 90 rpm.

I didn't say that, but it's easy to do, simply by moving the damper.
Ride along at 2:23 pace (120 watts), and move the damper so you're riding at 90 rpm.
A wild guess is maybe a drag factor of 50 to 55.