HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Taking part in one of Concept2's individual challenges? This is the place to talk about it.
xam217
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HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by xam217 » November 10th, 2020, 11:59 am

Hey all - I got a Model D on 10/22 and have dove right in. Leading up to the election I was feeling a ton of anxiety (and hope!) so I ended up trying some of the challenges. I'm an incredibly average athlete, aggressively mediocre. I'm 32 6'1" 225 coming from a crossfit background, but not particularly dedicated lately. My times reflect that - literally in the bottom 4th percentile for my HM :D . But I'm proud I was able to get these done!

10/30 - HM: 1:56:35.6 DF-134 500 pace: 2:45
10/31 - FM: 3:26:46.6 DF-218 500 pace: 2:27
11/2 - 30k: 1:22:21.5 DF-118 500 pace: 2:22
11/3 - 100k: 8:43:00.4 DF-166 500 pace: 2:36

My thumb still has pins and needles, but I finished. It really speaks to how healthy a movement rowing is that the recovery is much more manageable than running. That being said I will never do the century again - that was just too long. I think I'm still really inefficient in my stroke and I've been reading a lot of posts here to try and get better, but I'm enjoying the community and looking forward to tackling the seasonal challenges as they come up!
Max
6'1" (184 cm)
222 lbs (99 Kilos)
Forum Flyer
My log: https://log.concept2.com/profile/1405166/log

Dangerscouse
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Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by Dangerscouse » November 10th, 2020, 1:00 pm

Well done on doing all of those sessions. I know that the 100k is a horrific experience.

Are those results correct, as they don't make sense to me? Your HM pace was 18 seconds slower than your FM, and your 100k pace was also nine seconds faster than your HM pace, is that right?

Also you did your FM at max drag, and went faster than the HM at 134 drag?

If they are right, you can definitely massively improve on your HM, and probably improve on the other distances with better technique and not having the drag factor too high.

It is subjective, so you might like it higher, but it's almost always suggested to have a drag of circa 115-130. If it's too high, you are unnecessarily wasting energy as the flywheel is slowing down quicker.
50 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

xam217
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Joined: November 4th, 2020, 1:25 pm

Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by xam217 » November 10th, 2020, 1:20 pm

I'm really new to this. The numbers are all correct (Can I link my C2 log here?). The HM was the sketchiest of them all - I had never done any distance more than 10k before so I was a little leery of it and took it really slowly.

I watched a video about drag factor between the half and full, somehow my takeaway was that it would be efficient to go High DF and low SPM for the FM. I've learned since that this was the wrong way to think about it.

Is there any video or link you could recommend to work on a more efficient stroke? I think my form must be garbage, but I'm not really sure how to compare and crossfit coach's don't really care.
Max
6'1" (184 cm)
222 lbs (99 Kilos)
Forum Flyer
My log: https://log.concept2.com/profile/1405166/log

xam217
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Joined: November 4th, 2020, 1:25 pm

Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by xam217 » November 10th, 2020, 1:46 pm

Also - @Dangerscouse - 12 HOURS?!!!!??????? Absolute Madman!
Max
6'1" (184 cm)
222 lbs (99 Kilos)
Forum Flyer
My log: https://log.concept2.com/profile/1405166/log

Dino
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Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by Dino » November 10th, 2020, 2:00 pm

xam217 wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 11:59 am
Hey all - I got a Model D on 10/22 and have dove right in. Leading up to the election I was feeling a ton of anxiety (and hope!) so I ended up trying some of the challenges. I'm an incredibly average athlete, aggressively mediocre. I'm 32 6'1" 225 coming from a crossfit background, but not particularly dedicated lately. My times reflect that - literally in the bottom 4th percentile for my HM :D . But I'm proud I was able to get these done!

10/30 - HM: 1:56:35.6 DF-134 500 pace: 2:45
10/31 - FM: 3:26:46.6 DF-218 500 pace: 2:27
11/2 - 30k: 1:22:21.5 DF-118 500 pace: 2:22
11/3 - 100k: 8:43:00.4 DF-166 500 pace: 2:36

My thumb still has pins and needles, but I finished. It really speaks to how healthy a movement rowing is that the recovery is much more manageable than running. That being said I will never do the century again - that was just too long. I think I'm still really inefficient in my stroke and I've been reading a lot of posts here to try and get better, but I'm enjoying the community and looking forward to tackling the seasonal challenges as they come up!
That's what I call in at the deep end!!
Most people will never do a FM, let alone 100k and on consecutive days HM/FM, 30k/100k = nuts!!
An impressive start! I generally row 110-115 DF.
xam217 wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 1:20 pm
...Can I link my C2 log here?
yes you can!
The link direct to your log will be: https://log.concept2.com/profile/<rankingID>/log
Where the rankingID is as displayed when viewing your profile in the logbook.
If you want others to view your log also remember to update the privacy settings in your profile too.
54M HWT
50+PB 1m 326m, 500m 1:38,7, 1k 3:31.6, 2k 7:16.8, 5k 19:06.6, 6k 23:26.0, 30m 7730m, 10k 39:26.1, 60m 15025m, HM 1:25:04.7, FM 2:59:26.0, 50k 3:49:17.3
54+PB t.b.d.

xam217
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Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by xam217 » November 10th, 2020, 2:55 pm

That's what I call in at the deep end!!
Most people will never do a FM, let alone 100k and on consecutive days HM/FM, 30k/100k = nuts!!
An impressive start! I generally row 110-115 DF.
xam217 wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 1:20 pm
...Can I link my C2 log here?
yes you can!
The link direct to your log will be: https://log.concept2.com/profile/<rankingID>/log
Where the rankingID is as displayed when viewing your profile in the logbook.
If you want others to view your log also remember to update the privacy settings in your profile too.
https://log.concept2.com/profile/1405166/log

Really appreciate the response - hopefully I linked that correctly. When I try a DF that low I feel like I get tired just because I have to explode so fast out of the catch to get the power I'm looking for. Any idea what I could be doing wrong?
Max
6'1" (184 cm)
222 lbs (99 Kilos)
Forum Flyer
My log: https://log.concept2.com/profile/1405166/log

Dangerscouse
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Posts: 10041
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by Dangerscouse » November 10th, 2020, 3:22 pm

xam217 wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 2:55 pm
Really appreciate the response - hopefully I linked that correctly. When I try a DF that low I feel like I get tired just because I have to explode so fast out of the catch to get the power I'm looking for. Any idea what I could be doing wrong?
It does take a bit of getting used to with a lower drag, so it's best to lower it slowly and get used to it. I always used to row on a high drag, as 99% of gym rowers / newbies, will do, but over time I lowered it down. Now I have set every PB on a drag between 110-120. When I put it over 130 it feels too heavy now. I'm not sure of the science behind the slight technique flaw, but I'm sure someone will comment.

Out of interest, what stroke rate are you using for each session?

My 12hr challenge was for charity in memory of a very good friend who passed away from diabetes, and it was a lot more manageable than the 100k. I didn't plan my 100k very well at all, but circumstances meant I had to do it on that day, but I stopped about 15 times and dragged myself back on to finish it.

I'm now considering doing it again maybe before the end of the year, so I have got all of my PBs in 2020, assuming that I manage to beat my 1k too.

As Dino said, you have achieved something that most of us will never do, or even contemplate, with doing an FM, nevermind a 100k.
50 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Dangerscouse
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Posts: 10041
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by Dangerscouse » November 10th, 2020, 3:31 pm

xam217 wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 2:55 pm
Really appreciate the response - hopefully I linked that correctly. When I try a DF that low I feel like I get tired just because I have to explode so fast out of the catch to get the power I'm looking for. Any idea what I could be doing wrong?
Having looked at your profile, you're anything but average and mediocre. You have been extremely busy in a very short period of time.
50 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

DavidA
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Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by DavidA » November 10th, 2020, 3:58 pm

xam217 wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 11:59 am
Hey all - I got a Model D on 10/22 and have dove right in. Leading up to the election I was feeling a ton of anxiety (and hope!) so I ended up trying some of the challenges. I'm an incredibly average athlete, aggressively mediocre. I'm 32 6'1" 225 coming from a crossfit background, but not particularly dedicated lately. My times reflect that - literally in the bottom 4th percentile for my HM :D . But I'm proud I was able to get these done!

10/30 - HM: 1:56:35.6 DF-134 500 pace: 2:45
10/31 - FM: 3:26:46.6 DF-218 500 pace: 2:27
11/2 - 30k: 1:22:21.5 DF-118 500 pace: 2:22
11/3 - 100k: 8:43:00.4 DF-166 500 pace: 2:36

My thumb still has pins and needles, but I finished. It really speaks to how healthy a movement rowing is that the recovery is much more manageable than running. That being said I will never do the century again - that was just too long. I think I'm still really inefficient in my stroke and I've been reading a lot of posts here to try and get better, but I'm enjoying the community and looking forward to tackling the seasonal challenges as they come up!
Welcome and congratulations!
How did you manage to row such long distances so soon after getting your erg? :o
Most people can't ever do some of those distances. That is quite impressive.

David
63 y / 70 kg / 172 cm / 5 kids / 17 grandkids :)
Received my model C erg 18-Dec-1994
my log

xam217
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Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by xam217 » November 10th, 2020, 4:50 pm

DavidA wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 3:58 pm

Welcome and congratulations!
How did you manage to row such long distances so soon after getting your erg? :o
Most people can't ever do some of those distances. That is quite impressive.

David
Thanks David. This was more a matter of being stubborn and being ok with being slow than anything else. I just decided to hold on until I made it. Thats why you see the big errors like rowing the FM at a 10/218DF. Other than that I really attribute it to rowing being much easier on the body than running. I could never have run that and even if I could I would have been destroyed for weeks.

Also it helped me keep my mind busy ahead of the election. I don't want to get too political on here, but I was really worried I wouldn't get the result I was hoping for and rowing kept me occupied.
Last edited by xam217 on November 10th, 2020, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Max
6'1" (184 cm)
222 lbs (99 Kilos)
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My log: https://log.concept2.com/profile/1405166/log

xam217
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Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by xam217 » November 10th, 2020, 4:57 pm

Dangerscouse wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 3:22 pm

Out of interest, what stroke rate are you using for each session?

My 12hr challenge was for charity in memory of a very good friend who passed away from diabetes, and it was a lot more manageable than the 100k. I didn't plan my 100k very well at all, but circumstances meant I had to do it on that day, but I stopped about 15 times and dragged myself back on to finish it.

I'm now considering doing it again maybe before the end of the year, so I have got all of my PBs in 2020, assuming that I manage to beat my 1k too.

As Dino said, you have achieved something that most of us will never do, or even contemplate, with doing an FM, nevermind a 100k.

My god...12 hours. I can't imagine the mental battle to get back on there after hour 9, but I respect the desire to line up your personal bests. I love the idea of continuous improvement like that. Doubly so doing it for charity. I am sorry about your friend however. Diabetes is an ugly disease.
As far as my stroke rate:
<10k - 26-29 spm
FM - 22
100k - 21
HM - 20
Max
6'1" (184 cm)
222 lbs (99 Kilos)
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My log: https://log.concept2.com/profile/1405166/log

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Citroen
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Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by Citroen » November 10th, 2020, 4:59 pm

xam217 wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 4:50 pm
Also it helped me keep my mind busy ahead of the election. I don't want to get too political on here, but I was really worried I wouldn't get the result I was hoping for and rowing kept me occupied.
You and nearly 7,000,000,000 other folks appear to have the better result. They just need to evict the orange one by Jan 20th.

xam217
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Posts: 20
Joined: November 4th, 2020, 1:25 pm

Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by xam217 » November 10th, 2020, 5:04 pm

Citroen wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 4:59 pm
You and nearly 7,000,000,000 other folks appear to have the better result. They just need to evict the orange one by Jan 20th.
Haha...exactly this.
Max
6'1" (184 cm)
222 lbs (99 Kilos)
Forum Flyer
My log: https://log.concept2.com/profile/1405166/log

Dino
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Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by Dino » November 10th, 2020, 7:23 pm

xam217 wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 2:55 pm
That's what I call in at the deep end!!
Most people will never do a FM, let alone 100k and on consecutive days HM/FM, 30k/100k = nuts!!
An impressive start! I generally row 110-115 DF.
xam217 wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 1:20 pm
...Can I link my C2 log here?
yes you can!
The link direct to your log will be: https://log.concept2.com/profile/<rankingID>/log
Where the rankingID is as displayed when viewing your profile in the logbook.
If you want others to view your log also remember to update the privacy settings in your profile too.
https://log.concept2.com/profile/1405166/log

Really appreciate the response - hopefully I linked that correctly. When I try a DF that low I feel like I get tired just because I have to explode so fast out of the catch to get the power I'm looking for. Any idea what I could be doing wrong?
Yep - link works fine.
You can put the link in your signature if you like - so it looks like this: My Log
Image

You have some great times already 5k and down with definitely a lot more to come. The 5k especially. Couldn't see a 2k but you would probably be looking at around 7:10 I would guess at the moment, but sub 7 would be in your sights in fairly short order I should think.

Hard to say why you would get tired on a low DF. Its probably just getting the technique sorted.
A couple of good Concept2 videos on technique, drag and intensity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mqlk_Lo
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... -intensity
54M HWT
50+PB 1m 326m, 500m 1:38,7, 1k 3:31.6, 2k 7:16.8, 5k 19:06.6, 6k 23:26.0, 30m 7730m, 10k 39:26.1, 60m 15025m, HM 1:25:04.7, FM 2:59:26.0, 50k 3:49:17.3
54+PB t.b.d.

xam217
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Posts: 20
Joined: November 4th, 2020, 1:25 pm

Re: HM, FM, 30k, Century...Election Anxiety

Post by xam217 » November 11th, 2020, 9:56 am

Dino wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 7:23 pm
Hard to say why you would get tired on a low DF. Its probably just getting the technique sorted.
A couple of good Concept2 videos on technique, drag and intensity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mqlk_Lo
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... -intensity
Thank you I really appreciate the encouragement. These videos are great, especially the YouTube link with Peter. I'm going to give the ramping intensity at 1 damper setting a try at lunch time. I definitely feel like I'm slow out of the catch, and the force curve backs that up. Quick question do you pay a lot of attention to the force curve on the monitor usually or just when you're learning?
Max
6'1" (184 cm)
222 lbs (99 Kilos)
Forum Flyer
My log: https://log.concept2.com/profile/1405166/log

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