Cervical stenosis of the spine

[zen cohen]

I've had intermittent neck pain for years but when my left arm started feeling weaker than my right (I'm left-handed and it's always been stronger) the doc ordered an MRI. It showed cervical stenosis (C3-C7).

I'm going to see a specialist soon but wonder if any folks here have experience with it and how it affects or is affected by rowing, weightlifting, cycling and other activities.

Jeez I had a spontaneously collapsed lung a few months ago, now this. Do we just start falling apart around age 50?

[grams]

I have stenosis of the lower spine in the lumbar region. Gentle rowing helps me by strengthening my ab muscles, which helps hold my spine in place a bit more.

I'm not sure how it would affect your neck muscles. Ask your doctor which muscles help support your upper spine and head.

So, are you an 'old' athlete? That might have something to do with various failures? Or maybe it s genetic. Bad back run in my family...

grams

[zen cohen]

I have stenosis of the lower spine in the lumbar region. Gentle rowing helps me by strengthening my ab muscles, which helps hold my spine in place a bit more.

I'm not sure how it would affect your neck muscles. Ask your doctor which muscles help support your upper spine and head.

So, are you an 'old' athlete? That might have something to do with various failures? Or maybe it s genetic. Bad back run in my family...

grams

Did you have surgery for your stenosis? It seems that a number of people with this malady are told they need surgery not necessarily because of the pain (which is a minor issue for me right now) but ot stop the progression of the disease, which can have serious consequences down the road. It will take a helluva lot for me to ever consider letting someone have a go at my spine. I'll see what the doc says.

Don't know about being an "athlete," because my performance has never been all that great, but I might be paying for some years of bad weightlifitng technique.

Thanks for the response, Grams!

[grams]

No, no surgery. I't kind of a mess in my lower back where mine is, and the surgical outcomes are not that great. 30% of patients with surgery get better, 30% get worse, and 30% stay the same.

I expect cervical surgery is easier. Fusion is probably an option for you.

My stenosis is giving my sciatica, which is getting worse. I'm sticking with exercise and diet as my main regimen for now. That and Feldenkreis, which has exercises based on biomechanical principals. Proper lifting, bending, sitting etc, to get rid of my bad habits.

Oooh, weightlifting would do it. Sounds like its time to look at your biomechanical movements. On hte rower too. When I first started I had bad 'neck' habits and got some severe pain there until I improved my stroke technique.

Grams

[Nosmo]

30% of patients with surgery get better, 30% get worse, and 30% stay the same.

And the remaining 10% die?
The 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 sounds better then it is, because a number of people would get better anyway. My sister did her surgery rotation at UCSF, and she said the doctors considered themselves successful if they achieved the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 ratio. She also said there is only one surgeon she would trust and that surgeon was the only one who did anything to take care of her own back.

My understanding is that surgery for stenosis is the only back surgery with better outcomes then no surgery.

.... That and Feldenkreis, which has exercises based on biomechanical principals....

Who do you work with?

BTW, they are Feldenkrais lessons NOT exercises. It is an educational model not an athletic or medical model. Learn to move more efficiently and gracefully and you will not injure your self and you will let your body heal itself. Feldenkrais teaches you, it doesn't fix you. I did a four year training (but have since let my certification slip) and my wife is an assistant trainer.

[grams]

Gordon Browne is my Feldenkreis therapist. I have stenosis, scoliosis, arthritis, and 4 bulging disks, so surgery would be a little complicated in my case.

Here is a link to the University of Washington Low Back Symposium shows. I learneda lot from watching them. They cover pretty much everything.

Check it out at http://www.uwtv.org/podcasts/dynamic_uw ... 429&type=1

As long as I can row I don't plan on surgery.

grams

[Nosmo]

Gordon Browne is my Feldenkreis therapist.

Don't know him, but I hope he doesn't call him self a "therapist"--it is antithetical to the method.

Thanks for the link. I'll take a look.

[grams]

Here is a link to Gordon's site. I have gone to him for treatment, and I also bought his cds. He goes over so much that I had trouble remembering it all so I got the course.

http://www.outsmartinglowbackpain.com/default.cfm

grams

[Nosmo]

Oh, I see he is also a Physical Therapist and more. No problem calling himself a therapist who uses Feldenkrais. But "Feldenkrais Therapist" would be a marketing term that should make most Feldenkrais Practitioners wince. I didn't see that term on the web site, but I can understand the confusion.

[tom pinckney]

I too have "stenosis" - yep - Neck and back problems with bulging discs. It is quite interesting to me that the one thing we feel like doing the least (exercise) seems to be the thing that helps us the most.

I've been having back/neck problems for over 35 years and have learned what I can "get away with" while at the same time (thanks to numerous trips to physical therapy) avoid surgery.

My last (recent) trip to PT was "different." The present day thearapists seem to use "functional exercises" (rather than just toss around dumbells doing the same exercises that "everyone else is doing") that mimick efficient body movement and there seems to be a greater emphasis on working the core. There are exercises that will strengthen your abs/back without putting unwanted strain on them. I learned this at PT.

As one becomes "more injured" we become more educated (how to exercise properly without hurting ourselves) as to how to handle our injuries and live with them. I've learned this from physical therapists and applying it to my own workouts.

One of the keys to staying better is stay with your program. Many people will do "their exercises" until they "feel better" and then stop. Of course, the problems always come back.

My back/neck problems are with me 24 hours a day. However, with exercise and a "jump in the hot tub" (I purchased one recently) I can function pretty normally.

[yoda]

About a year and a half ago I fell while hiking. Had no idea what caused it at that point. No warning at all, just my leg going numb and falling. I ended up at a specialists office and then sent for an MRI of the lower back. Stenosis in the lower back was the diagosis. After several weeks of therapy and no improvement it was recommended that I have a procedure of installing what was called "X-Stops". Since I spend a mimimum of an hour a day exercising I went ahead and had this done. Before the procedure I was unable to walk for more than about 100 feet. 3 days after the operation I took a walk of 45 minutes and have progress since then. I highly recommend checking into this procedure as it has save my butt. I'm one of those people that can't sit still. I don't know if it has been approved for the cervical portion of the spine as it hadn't been when I had my operation, but should be approved by now. It is certainly worth looking into.

Good Luck,
Yoda

[grams]

Your suggestion for x-stops sounded great so I looked it up. I probaby should have explored that option about 10 years ago, when the other stuff going on wasn't so bad. My arthritis has progressed much more rapidly than I would have liked, and has affected all of my lower and middle back.

x-stops are not recommended for people with:
* an ankylosed segment at the affected level(s) _ I have about 6
* significant scoliosis - my back is definitely curved side to side

I went to a really good back surgeon a few weeks ago. After a thorough exam he said that my only real option for relieving the sciatic pain is spinal fusion of about 5-6 vertebrae. He said rowing wouldn't hurt me now but after surgery I basically wouldn't bend at all, and rowing would be out.

I'm not ready to get myself welded into an inflexible lump and sit around all day, so his recommendation is to take anti-inflammatories (which I do anyway) and keep moving. Gentle rowing is ok if done with good technique to minimize back strain and build up core muscles. A few physical therapy exercises are ok, but most of them are painful for me now.

The other thing is to avoid bad things like lifting heavy objects and walking long distances on hard surfaces, and going up stairs. Good thing rowing is a low-impact exercise.

Now that I have the go-ahead to row, I'll see how much it hurts. I really need the exercise to get my metabolism back up and lose about 15 pounds!

I am so glad I did all the sports and adventures all my life. I would be in worse shape now if I hadn't. Scuba, soccer, hiking, backpacking, climbing, cycling, sailing, adventure travel; I did it all.

Go for it while you can!!

grams

[yoda]

Hi Grams,

Having gone through shoulder replacement, steel plate in the wrist, and then the X-Stops I have reached the opinion that just because a doctor has a degree doesn't automatically make his opinions right. Remember that half of the doctors practicing medicine today were in the lower half of their graduating class. So maybe, just maybe, they could be wrong. Doctors have alway said to take it easy. Don't strain, don't overwork, etc. But I've found that if I work the area of the body to make it stronger it seems to get stronger. I'm not saying that you should shoot for a slot on the U.S. Olympic weightlifting team, but I am saying that the weak areas of the body need to be strengthen through exercise. An that exercise should stress the weaken area in a way to promote strength.

When my first shoulder replacement was done the surgeon told me no more bike riding and I should not stress the shoulder in any way. Just do normal things around the house. I was really down because I have always been, like you, very active. When the second shoulder was done I decided that I would go through therapy, but when it was over I was going to begin doing the things I had done all of my life. And I have done that, but with some control. I weight train twice a week. Not heavy, like it used to be, but with control. Then when the X-Stops were installed the surgeon told me I could do anything my body would let me do. I was excited. Within a short time I was back doing everything I was doing when I was 35 years old. Not as well and certainly not as fast, but I was doing the things I wanted to do.

The human body is the most amazing thing. It can surmount any problems and make adjustments simply by moving. I have seen elderly men and women, in walkers, being to exercise and after a few months are going out dancing. I believe that the old adage of "Use it or Lose it" is a true statement and it applies to all of us, not matter the age.

I'm not a doctor, just an average guy looking to get the most I can out of life. So far, it's working for me.

Yoda

[grams]

I also believe in the regenerative power of the human body. My 2 ankle tendon replacements (25 years ago and 8 years ago) and my ACL surgery 2 years ago are proof of that.

The latest dr said 'do everything until it hurts too much and then come back'.

Yesterday was erging, today shoveling snow from my elderly neighbor's walk.

Thank heavens for ibuprofin and acetamenophen. He turned me on to taking them the max dose of each together. That seems to be working.

grams

[keepitlow]

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