Concept2 Forum

I used to be on the forum as ljwagner, had emergency bypass surgery 01/13/2006 .

A lot of methodical rehab exercise, a very strict diet, and lots of research on National Institute of Health website over the years
and I am well recovered.

Returned to rowing on the water, some, plus archery, and have taken up volleyball. I played some basketball, but have given that up.
My volleyball kind of sucks, but I can play for hours and hours. I seem to have
no ability to judge a ball coming down overhead, so spiking is a disaster. Most people rarely set me.
The rest of my game is ok. Rowing gives me great wrists, so I win most jousts I get involved in.
That shocks people. And rowing is good for jumping, so I get in some blocks, despite being 60+.

What's fun, is the first year, I rowed an hour on the water first in the morning, then played
volleyball for 3-5 hours in the afternoon. And had better endurance than nearly everyone else playing.

In exercise physiology, I found a study that revealed an 80% everyday high carb diet, gave 75% more endurance than a balance diet,
and triple the endurance of a high fat diet. Some of you may want to try that. Weight gain only occurs with EXCESS calories.
My own diet is very high in complex carbs, so my endurance is part great training, part wise diet.

Healthy fats and oils ? Not for me. I seem to have become a whiz on diet, anti-oxidants and atherosclerosis/heart disease.
My max heart rate, when feeling particularly chipper, is about 180. No chest pain. Excellent for a 60 year old.

Did I mention my cardiologist thought I would be dead in three years, my condition was essentially unrecoverable.
Those 15 inoperable minor blockages past the big ones seemed very convincing to him. Six years past that now.

Wishing everyone the best

You may get some kickback on the high carb diet but congratulations on your challenged but highly functional plumbing, your endurance at stop and go ball sports, and your HRMAX. Mine is currently 172 following rehab for angina and stent placement a yr. ago. I dig volleyball. At 5'7" that's all I was ever capable of. I'm getting a bit brittle for hardwood diving but have 2.5MM meters on the erg this yr. Jack

Great job with the recovery! I'm very curious as to what you consider a high carb diet. Exactly what are you eating?

I got a steal of a book from Amazon, a 2001 McArdle, Katch and Katch university level exercise physiology text book, "Exercise Physiology, 5th Edition: Energy, Nutrition, and Human Performance", for a penny plus $4 shipping. Its 1,158 pages long. Some parts are very readable, very applicable and interesting to a healthy lifestyle, not just for athletes.

Chapter 1's topic is Carbohydrates, Lipids, and Proteins.
Chapter 3's topic is Optimal Nutrition for Exercise.

The study giving the 80% carb diet for optimal endurance is detailed in Chapter 1, a journal article from 1967. 52 years ago, I know.
But the textbook's authors maintain that this study was so well done, so well documented, and so well proven over time,
that attempts to disprove it are considered pointless. The study is discussed primarily in the section "Carbohydrate Dynamics In Exercise",
on pages 15-18 of the textbook I have. The quoted study is adapted from Bergstrom J, et al. Diet, Muscle Glycogen, and Physical Performance, from Acta Physiol Scand 1967;71:140. This study is likely the original source of the late 60's concept of carbohydrate loading. But the improvement for a couple days of carb loading prior to performance is only about 5%, where as be on a constant training table style diet of 80% carbs, results in the enormous gains cited. As part

Among various aspects of the study, wet muscle biopsy, showed muscle glycogen stores of 0.63 gram on a high fat diet (5% carbs),
1.75 grams on a balance diet, and 3.75 grams on an 82% high carb diet, during a three day diet change for all athletes from a balanced diet. Carbs refered to as from complex carbs, not simple sugars.
Six times the muscle store of glycogen from complex carbs compared to a high fat diet. Exercise to failure tests went 3.35 times longer
on high carb diet compared to high fat diet, 191 minutes vs 57 minutes. When the two groups on the non high carb diets shifted to that diet for a week, their exercise performance went up an additional 10%.

So folks can research this themselves, depend on others, or dig into other exercise physiology resources as they wish, but relying on opinions of coaches or athletes who do not study exercise physiology is highly questionable. I have listed the source of what I have stated. Because of my heart disease, ingesting more than negligible amounts of fat causes me strong angina and risks death of heart tissue, I don't go there. No one can convince me it is a worthwhile risk. My diet is mainly leafy veggies, lots of whole grains, of oatmeal, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and whole grain or whole wheat breads and bagels, plus some nuts, mainly pistachios, pecans, and almonds, fruits and juices, primarily pomegranate and berries with some apples and citrus, and protein from primarily chicken breast, salmon, and tuna. And lots of high anti-oxidant herbs and spices.

Chapter 3 mentions the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico, who have a very high carbohydrate and very low fat diet.

Dietary carbs are absorbed to liver and muscle glycogen faster than protein and fats. Both fats and protein require energy to digest to convert them to glycogen. This faster absorption allows an athlete on a high carb diet to eat more food faster. That "hollow leg" athletes get accused of. Mostly if eating lots of carbs. Protein breakdown for energy requires lots of water, potentially dehydrating. Protein digestion's high energy demands partially block the ability to train at higher intensity because of that. This is all from a summary on page 92 of my 5th Edition text. Chapter 3 cites other studies on energy balance and endurance. But you get the point. Research is available. I look for it. I don't go off of hearsay, or my own opinion. An opinion has no validity except as a question or supposition.

Exercise at super high intensity, such as rowing 2Ks and the like, may not see as much benefit from this. But very long training sessions should.
Another training aspect I found, used a lot in rowing and track and field, is high intensity interval training (HIIT). Compared to other training methods they are considered as good or better, and allow for better performance gains in less time. Lots of published research on HIIT is available, too.

CardiacLarry wrote:I got a steal of a book from Amazon, a 2001 McArdle, Katch and Katch university level exercise physiology text book, "Exercise Physiology, 5th Edition: Energy, Nutrition, and Human Performance", for a penny plus $4 shipping. Its 1,158 pages long. Some parts are very readable, very applicable and interesting to a healthy lifestyle, not just for athletes.

Chapter 1's topic is Carbohydrates, Lipids, and Proteins.
Chapter 3's topic is Optimal Nutrition for Exercise.

The study giving the 80% carb diet for optimal endurance is detailed in Chapter 1, a journal article from 1967. 52 years ago, I know.
But the textbook's authors maintain that this study was so well done, so well documented, and so well proven over time,
that attempts to disprove it are considered pointless. The study is discussed primarily in the section "Carbohydrate Dynamics In Exercise",
on pages 15-18 of the textbook I have. The quoted study is adapted from Bergstrom J, et al. Diet, Muscle Glycogen, and Physical Performance, from Acta Physiol Scand 1967;71:140. This study is likely the original source of the late 60's concept of carbohydrate loading. But the improvement for a couple days of carb loading prior to performance is only about 5%, where as be on a constant training table style diet of 80% carbs, results in the enormous gains cited. As part

Among various aspects of the study, wet muscle biopsy, showed muscle glycogen stores of 0.63 gram on a high fat diet (5% carbs),
1.75 grams on a balance diet, and 3.75 grams on an 82% high carb diet, during a three day diet change for all athletes from a balanced diet. Carbs refered to as from complex carbs, not simple sugars.
Six times the muscle store of glycogen from complex carbs compared to a high fat diet. Exercise to failure tests went 3.35 times longer
on high carb diet compared to high fat diet, 191 minutes vs 57 minutes. When the two groups on the non high carb diets shifted to that diet for a week, their exercise performance went up an additional 10%.

So folks can research this themselves, depend on others, or dig into other exercise physiology resources as they wish, but relying on opinions of coaches or athletes who do not study exercise physiology is highly questionable. I have listed the source of what I have stated. Because of my heart disease, ingesting more than negligible amounts of fat causes me strong angina and risks death of heart tissue, I don't go there. No one can convince me it is a worthwhile risk. My diet is mainly leafy veggies, lots of whole grains, of oatmeal, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and whole grain or whole wheat breads and bagels, plus some nuts, mainly pistachios, pecans, and almonds, fruits and juices, primarily pomegranate and berries with some apples and citrus, and protein from primarily chicken breast, salmon, and tuna. And lots of high anti-oxidant herbs and spices.

Chapter 3 mentions the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico, who have a very high carbohydrate and very low fat diet.

Dietary carbs are absorbed to liver and muscle glycogen faster than protein and fats. Both fats and protein require energy to digest to convert them to glycogen. This faster absorption allows an athlete on a high carb diet to eat more food faster. That "hollow leg" athletes get accused of. Mostly if eating lots of carbs. Protein breakdown for energy requires lots of water, potentially dehydrating. Protein digestion's high energy demands partially block the ability to train at higher intensity because of that. This is all from a summary on page 92 of my 5th Edition text. Chapter 3 cites other studies on energy balance and endurance. But you get the point. Research is available. I look for it. I don't go off of hearsay, or my own opinion. An opinion has no validity except as a question or supposition.

Exercise at super high intensity, such as rowing 2Ks and the like, may not see as much benefit from this. But very long training sessions should.
Another training aspect I found, used a lot in rowing and track and field, is high intensity interval training (HIIT). Compared to other training methods they are considered as good or better, and allow for better performance gains in less time. Lots of published research on HIIT is available, too.

2001 McArdle, Katch and Katch university level exercise physiology text book, "Exercise Physiology, 5th Edition: Energy, Nutrition, and Human Performance"

This is an excellent resource book, I have mibe still from when i studied sport science, it has some great information for health, fitness and nutrition

I like your diet. I think people tend to associate carbs with simple sugars and forget that fruits and vegetables are carbs also. I haven't done the research to support it, but I believe the body can train to burn fats, I've gotten to a point (probably due to week after week of 80-100k on the erg) where I can do 10k at a solid pace with no (apparent) need to fuel; I generally do not specifically eat prior to a work out. Years of 2-3 hour bike rides and races may have impacted my body chemistry also. Who knows.

When I need to cut weight quickly (to make weight for a race) I eliminate all of the grains and sugars. However, there is a price to be paid in performance. My protocol now is to get my weight down well in advance going hard core "paleo" then add the carbs back in. I tell my weight loss clients to eliminate the breads, bagles, and grains; and add them back in prior to and after work outs. And for straight endurance clients, utilize the grains to support the work outs.

I think problems arise when people fail to distinguish betweet healthy quality carbs (fruits, vegetables, and limited whole grains) and a steady diet of simple carbs (sugars, donuts, cakes, sugar-laden energy bars and drinks). Same with fats. Can't go wrong with nuts, olive oil, salmon, avocado, olives. I don't avoid, but I certainly don't go heavy on saturated fats. limited butter, cheese, and fatty meats. If I was a heart patient I would probably go stricter in these areas. Even a lot of the strict "paleo" guys are starting to swing back to simple carb consumption to fuel work-outs.

You did make one comment that really sums up the whole weight loss thing. EXCESSIVE consumption of carbs, or anything, will cause weight gain.

I've had a high-carb, low-fat diet for nearly 40 yrs. Carbs are metabolized in a shorter pathway supplying more energy, more quickly. Fats are more slow burning. 800m runners are using carbs all the way. 100 mile endurance runners are operating almost exclusively on fats. But look at the pace: 800m runner at something like 3:30 a mile; endurance runner, maybe 10 min per mile. For anyone who is a good marathoner, they know that hitting the wall is when carbs give out. There are lots of fats left, but they cannot sustain 5-6 min miles. Ever hear the phrase "carbo loading"? It's not nonsense. There is science behind it.