Concept2 Forum

hi,

im 17 and i row for my state. I am currently in my 1st crew, but im struggling to stay in thier. I have been interested in supplements, and was wondering what program i should be using ?

groovydude wrote:hi,

im 17 and i row for my state. I am currently in my 1st crew, but im struggling to stay in thier. I have been interested in supplements, and was wondering what program i should be using ?

Just eat plenty of complex carbohydrates and you will have all the energy and strength you need.

If you literally want to piss away your money, supplements make sense.

Rockin' Roland disagrees. Perhaps he'll offer you some suggestions.

Tom

TomR wrote:If you literally want to piss away your money, supplements make sense.

Rockin' Roland disagrees. Perhaps he'll offer you some suggestions.

Tom

I'll drink to that. But seriously, a 17 year old doesn't need supplements! They just need to eat correctly and exercise intensely.

TomR wrote:If you literally want to piss away your money, supplements make sense.

Rockin' Roland disagrees. Perhaps he'll offer you some suggestions.

Tom

If your 17 and struggling to make your 1st crew most coaches will tell you to hit the weights and bulk up in the off season. If your going to increase the training load on your body then a well planned supplements program will make a noticable difference.

The sceptics will say that you can get all your nutritional needs from a well balanced diet. That may be so for the average person but not for those that frequently engage in intense exercise.

Supplements help you obtain those extra nutrients and in exact quantities that you need. They also have the advantage of conveniently been taken just before and after workouts in a easily digestable form. Something you can't easily do with whole foods.

It is best to do some research before embarking on a supplements program to avoid making costly mistakes. Yes Tom you are right to a certain degree that some supplements will piss your money away.

My advice is to go a sports supplement store that has a good reputation amongst the sports people in your area. Start with the foundational supplements which contain BCAAs, L-Glutamine, Magnesium, Anti-Oxidants and Carbs (not all in the one supplement though) of well known brands.

And remember that not all protein supplements are the same. There is fast release and slow release protein and cheap stuff that just bloats you and makes you feel like crap.

I could go on and on, but that should do for now.

Rockin Roland wrote:

TomR wrote:If you literally want to piss away your money, supplements make sense.

Rockin' Roland disagrees. Perhaps he'll offer you some suggestions.

Tom

If your 17 and struggling to make your 1st crew most coaches will tell you to hit the weights and bulk up in the off season. If your going to increase the training load on your body then a well planned supplements program will make a noticable difference.

The sceptics will say that you can get all your nutritional needs from a well balanced diet. That may be so for the average person but not for those that frequently engage in intense exercise.

Supplements help you obtain those extra nutrients and in exact quantities that you need. They also have the advantage of conveniently been taken just before and after workouts in a easily digestable form. Something you can't easily do with whole foods.

It is best to do some research before embarking on a supplements program to avoid making costly mistakes. Yes Tom you are right to a certain degree that some supplements will piss your money away.

My advice is to go a sports supplement store that has a good reputation amongst the sports people in your area. Start with the foundational supplements which contain BCAAs, L-Glutamine, Magnesium, Anti-Oxidants and Carbs (not all in the one supplement though) of well known brands.

And remember that not all protein supplements are the same. There is fast release and slow release protein and cheap stuff that just bloats you and makes you feel like crap.

I could go on and on, but that should do for now.

I must be a skeptic -- 17 year olds do not need supplements. Eating a hamburger and three glasses of milk, for example, gives a rower all the protein he or she needs, and then wolfing down all the other foods the typical 17 year old male eats, like several Cokes or Pepsi's gives him or her all the carbohydrates. I do agree though that taking a multivitamin on the typical Western diet is the only supplement a 17 year old should take.

Instead of buying supplements, if an athlete is paranoid about nutrition, then mix 1/4 cup of blackstrap molasses in one cup of water along with 1/4 cup of nutritional yeast, and some Stevia, and that is one powerhouse drink of vitamins and minerals, and depending on the brand of nutritional yeast (I recommend Lewis Labs), about 430 calories. So, yes, it is easy to get all your nutritional needs from a well-balanced diet -- the problem however is that many people refuse to eat a well-balanced diet. Anyway, look up the nutritional values on my drink, which I typically drink each day (also provides 32 grams of complete protein), and let me know what you think.

ok thanks for the tips guys. But im really struggling to get in my 1st 8, im gonna get dropped if i dont pull harder on the erg. Im trying to train harder, but i just can't..physically my muscles know that they cant keep doing this. I really do need to take supplements.

Anyway, i've seeked some advice, and many of them told me to take a Protein Blend(60/40 carbohydate) and creatine. Is this feasible?

groovydude wrote:ok thanks for the tips guys. But im really struggling to get in my 1st 8, im gonna get dropped if i dont pull harder on the erg. Im trying to train harder, but i just can't..physically my muscles know that they cant keep doing this. I really do need to take supplements.

Anyway, i've seeked some advice, and many of them told me to take a Protein Blend(60/40 carbohydate) and creatine. Is this feasible?

Ah, the typical 17 year old -- must have supplements; they are magic.

Actually, there is no substitute for hard work, and it sounds as though you need to work on increasing the strength in your legs, and increasing your stamina.

If all we had to do was eat protein to gain muscle mass, then we wouldn't need to exercise. So, I would opine that if you start taking supplements (a more expensive price to pay for protein and carbohydrate) then the placebo effect may make you think that it is helping, and you may actually pull harder.

Remember this, if your muscles want to stop pulling, and you can't train harder, then what you are lacking is sufficient glycogen -- and that means that you are not eating enough carbohydrates -- you need a minimum of 400 grams of complex carbohydrates a day, and a minimum of 50 grams of complete protein from animal protein (you'll get another 40 grams from eating the 400 grams of complex carbohydrates since whole grains and legumes contain plenty of protein).

So, while the supplements won't really help you as a 17 year old, if you start eating 400 to 600 grams of complex carbohydrates along with the supplements, you will experience a difference and a surge of energy (from the whole food; not the supplements) -- now when you decide to become a powerlifter, then you can abuse yourself with all kinds of supplements: then supplements do make a difference (of course, your health will be adversely affected, but when you are young, you won't even notice it until later).

groovydude wrote:ok thanks for the tips guys. But im really struggling to get in my 1st 8, im gonna get dropped if i dont pull harder on the erg. Im trying to train harder, but i just can't..physically my muscles know that they cant keep doing this. I really do need to take supplements.

Anyway, i've seeked some advice, and many of them told me to take a Protein Blend(60/40 carbohydate) and creatine. Is this feasible?

I wouldn't take Stealhead's advice of a diet consisting of hamburgers, coke and molasses too seriously. He obviously hasn't rowed hard enough to ever need supplements since he can get by on that stuff. It's that kind of mentality that contributes to the problem of obesity in the western world.

You need to get stronger quickly so creatine and fast release proteins have the scientifically proven track records to get you there. However not all people respond to creatine in the same way. Creatine also comes in many different supplement forms from the cheaper and more difficult to absorb monohydrate to the more expensive but vastly efficient ethyl esther.

Take creatine just before high intensity rowing sessions and within a month you should notice feeling stronger and your erg times improve. You should mix your creatine with a sucrose/fructose energy drink for a real performance spike. Recent studies have also shown far greater performance boosts if sucrose and fructose are taken together in equal proportions than seperately. They need each other to work properly.

In addition to creatine, immediately after an intense workout (not endurance workout) take a fast release protein ( a reputable sports supplement store will advise of the products available) with L-Glutamine. Don't take the carbos until an hour later, unless you are in your competition period. This is the ideal way to build rapid strength when your in training mode.

Whatever you do don't touch Pepsi or Coke. They are the worst drinks on this planet if you respect your body and teeth.

Yeah i agree, soft drinks are garbage.

Now I know im not very educated in terms of the effects of creatine but i do know that a) creatine comes from your body and b) creatine is used up in 5 seconds and c) creatine significantly increases your body mass.

So i don't see anything beneficial to your training regime if you plan on rowing a 2k or a 6k faster.


groovydude

im 17 151lbs and back in march i pulled 7:01 on a 2k.

for a significant amount of time i have been taking the following supplements.

PILLS
Fish oils (100% wild alaskan salmon)
Multivitamine (formula forte)

SHAKE
L Glutamine
Soy Protein
Frozen Spinach
Fruit Cocktail

I take the pills daily. I take the shake immediately after hard rows or weight sessions.

I'm very satisfied with my diet and it gives me assurance that my body has everything it needs to recover... I believe it was Steelhead that told me last winter how to eliminate dairy from my suplement taking... I felt back then that i took in an excess of dairy (like whey powder with ice cream and choc.milk shakes) on top of the typical stuff (milk and cereal)

http://www.owrc.com/nutrition/RowingNutrition.html

Try this link for some info

FB

Some supplements that might work:

- protein (leucine)
- creatine
- carbohydrate (dextrose)
- caffeine (note: a prohibited substance)

I think the following article means you need to get enough carbohydrate....

Ribose versus dextrose supplementation, association with rowing performance: a double-blind study.

Dunne L, Worley S, Macknin M.
Sports Medicine Center, Ohio State University, Columbus, OH, USA.

OBJECTIVE: It has been hypothesized that ribose supplementation rapidly replenishes adenosine triphosphate stores and thereby improves exercise performance. We compared the effects of ribose versus dextrose on rowing performance. DESIGN: Double-blind randomized trial. SETTING: Rowing team training area of large midwestern university. PARTICIPANTS: Thirty-one women collegiate rowers. INTERVENTIONS: We studied the effects of ribose versus dextrose supplementation (10 g each in 8 oz water) for 8 weeks before and after practice and 2000-m time trials. OUTCOME MEASUREMENTS AND RESULTS: In the time trials, the dextrose group showed significantly more improvement at 8 weeks than the ribose group (median, 15.2 vs. 5.2 s; P = 0.031). CONCLUSIONS: We doubt ribose impaired, and hypothesize dextrose enhanced, rowing performance

As for creatine...

Although this is not conclusive material, there is some indication that creatine improves anaerobic metabolism. Creatine can improve performance over shorter intervals, and for master's rowers and older, the actual racing distance is often only 1000 or 1500M. From three separate studies (PubMed and/or Google Scholar using the search criteria rowing and creatine):

We conclude that in competitive rowers, a 5-day period of creatine supplementation was effective in raising whole-body creatine stores, the magnitude of which provided a positive, though statistically non-significant (r = 0.426, P = 0.088), relationship with 1000-m rowing performance.

During the anaerobic test, the athletes supplemented with creatine were able to continue rowing longer (mean increase, 12.1 +/- 4.5 s; p<.01) than Pl-Group (2.4 +/- 8.2 s; ns). No significant differences were found between groups in blood LA after the all-out exercise. The results indicate that in elite rowers, creatine supplementation improves endurance (expressed by the individual lactate threshold) and anaerobic performance, independent of the effect of intensive endurance training.

Rossiter et al [66] randomly assigned 38 male and female competitive rowers to either placebo or creatine supplementation (20 g/day for 5 days) groups in a double-blind manner. Simulated rowing time over 1,000 m was measured before and after supplementation. Total creatine uptake was estimated as the difference between creatine consumed and urinary [creatine] and [creatinine]. Muscle creatine uptake was estimated as 38±10 mmol/kg dry muscle. A significant 2.3-second decrease in 1,000 m rowing time (211.0 to 208.7 seconds) was observed in the creatine group with no change in the placebo group. The authors also reported a trend toward significance in the association between estimated creatine uptake and percent change in rowing performance (r=0.43; p=0.09).

That said, the same review that cited Rossiter, also later wrote the following:

Overall, there appears to be little scientific support for the concept that creatine supplementation will enhance performance in exercise tasks dependent primarily on oxidative metabolism of endogenous carbohydrate and fat.

Okkk, look mate, there is absolutley no need for someone of your age to go on a supplement programme, all you need to do is keep eating, as many have allready stated all you need for the correct nutrition is a balanced diet, there is no needd to pump any of this synthesised rubbish into your body, just eat as much as you can bear and drink milk. I speak from experience as i was of much the same mindset as yourself, but i ended up not bothering with any supplements, i pulled 6:20 at 17 and i'm now 18 and should be sub 6:10 for my next 2k test, i also row at a very good club with very experienced coaches and they advised me against any supplements, even most of the olympic athletes at my club do not use any supplementation, they just eat like hell and these guys are 6'5" 100kg and pull 5:50 ergs so if anyone needs it they do. You obviously have talent to be in your state 1st 8 just push harder than everyone else at every opportunity, strengthen your weaknesses and focus more on thechnique than on bulking up and you'll stay there!

Good Luck