heart rate confusion

[lambs]

I am 60 and started rowing about 9 months ago to lose weight (I was 287lbs now 194lbs). I was extremely unfit having done no exercise for about 30 years and even though I now row most days I am still pretty unfit and my times are all below average for my age category (8:37.1 for 2k for example). I have a Garmin chest HRM and a Garmin fenix watch to monitor my heart rate as I row, and I would like to row at the correct heart rate for the type of workout I am doing (aerobic, anaerobic etc) but I am having trouble working out what those rates should be. I have seen the formula 220-age=maxHr which would make my maxHR 160. I have also read that this formula is outdated and 205.8 - (0.685 × age) is more accurate (which equals about 164 for me). According to my Garmin my resting heart rate is 48 so my HRR is 116 (HRR = MHR minus RHR) therefore for aerobic training my range should be @106-135 (50–75% of HRR + RHR) and for anaerobic the range should be @140-146 (80–85% of HRR + RHR).A couple of problems are that as soon as I start rowing my heart rate shoots up very quickly and its difficult to keep below 135, and If I really push it my heart rate shoots way over my theoretical maximum (at the weekend I set my fastest time for 5k at 21:59.2 which isn't particularly fast but my average heart rate was 178 and the maximum was 189!). Does this mean that my actual Maximum heart rate should be around 190 and I should use that value to recalculate the heart rate ranges for aerobic and anaerobic workouts?. surely my heart rate shouldn't be that fast for so long, but i don't feel any ill effect from it i'm fully recovered in a few minutes. Could it be some medical issue? does anybody else get this issue?
thanks
stuart

[Tony Cook]

Others will be along with more science but you have already realised that 220 minus age and other formulae do not work. Some are based on many people but only give an average, and we are all different. Your MRH is personal to you and so should be worked out. There are tests you can do where you gradually increase effort to the point of failure and see what the highest number was.
I see my max on a 2k TT where it steadily rises and levels out at 175-178 so I use 175 for my MRH. I do get annoying spikes where I shoot up to 205-215 for a few seconds and was concerned so had my heart checked out - nothing untoward was found.
Some people don’t use HR and work on feel.
Depends what you are training for and if you want to go on steadily improving your aerobic base then perceived effort should work well - if you can hold a conversation or sing a couple of lines of a song as you exercise you will be in the steady state area.

[JaapvanE]

A couple of problems are that as soon as I start rowing my heart rate shoots up very quickly and its difficult to keep below 135, and If I really push it my heart rate shoots way over my theoretical maximum (at the weekend I set my fastest time for 5k at 21:59.2 which isn't particularly fast but my average heart rate was 178 and the maximum was 189!). Does this mean that my actual Maximum heart rate should be around 190 and I should use that value to recalculate the heart rate ranges for aerobic and anaerobic workouts?

The formula used is very crude. I personally use the "Maximum observed heartrate", so your 189 is a good candidate to redo all your HR zones.

[Dangerscouse]

I wouldn't worry about how high your HR is going, assuming you don't get any pains etc, as the only thing that is agreed upon is that your HR will reduce as you get older; but the starting point is very subjective. I know some very fast rowers with a max HR of circa 165, and others of 202.

I'd use 189 as your MHR, and then base the zones on that, but I'd also be very mindful of how you recover & progress from different efforts. Some people advocate 70% as the right SS zone, whilst others are convinced that 80% is far more beneficial, so you're probably somewhere in that range, but we all respond differently to different stimuli.

[MPx]

My understanding of a MaxHR is that it is the fastest your heart will pulse at maximum stress. Indeed the proper measurement of it is via a stress test to failure. Therefore any observed max is likley to be shy of your actual max unless you are under severe stress. (Erroneous equipement spikes like Tony experienced aside). The max number is just what it is - personal to you and no amount of training etc will make any difference to it. It will slowly lower as you get older - and maybe by about 1 bpm per year.

Your resting heart rate is what's affected by getting fitter. Yours at 48 already shows a good level of fitness - well done - population norms for well people is around 60.

I'm with you in using a % of HRR added to RHR for my training zones. Some prefer to just use a % of max. I think its not really an exact enough science (without doing blood tests etc) to be certain about the boundaries so would suggest aiming at the middle of the ranges - particularly for aerobic work at the lower UT1/UT2 levels. Certainly nothing to worry about....

[Joebasscat]

You have received good advice on your HR question and I would certainly agree with the 189 being what you should base your percentages from. If you are moving past your 135 target too quickly then the answer is slow down further for your SS rows. Use HR as your guide and not ego, which we all struggle with. Save the efforts that significantly raise your HR to once or twice a week max and you will be in a good pattern.

Congratulations on your weight loss, that is a significant reduction. Well done.

[jamesg]

Rowing is a real sport, so does not need heart rate. It requires power and we can see how the boat (or the flywheel, thanks to C2) moves, and Watts is Watts. Once you've learnt how it's done, ratings below 23 strokes per minute are aerobic. These levels serve to get and maintain general fitness and strength, endurance and so on.

It's no different from walking; if we want to get fit we can walk on the flat say an hour or two at a "normal" pace, but if we hit a hill or try to accelerate, we get out of breath, so slow down or stop. However rowing can be quite a lot harder than flat walking, so distances tend to be shorter.

Higher anaerobic stroke rates are used when training specifically for racing or TTs, since if you have a good stroke, ratings higher than 24 cannot be maintained for long times, but would be used only in intervals such as 3 x 5 minutes or 3 x 1k. The longest real race is only 2k, tho' in spring there are events such as 5 or 6k with hundreds of boats.

[Tsnor]

... (I was 287lbs now 194lbs)...

NICE.

.. the maximum was 189!). Does this mean that my actual Maximum heart rate should be around 190 and I should use that value to recalculate the heart rate ranges for aerobic and anaerobic workouts?.

Exactly right. Also, your max HR does not change as you get stronger. So once your set your ranges they should be good for a year or two. (age will drop your HR about .7 beats/min every year, so after 2 years your zones will be roughly 1 beat/min lower).

surely my heart rate shouldn't be that fast for so long, but i don't feel any ill effect from it i'm fully recovered in a few minutes. Could it be some medical issue? does anybody else get this issue?

Yes, many people find that formula predicted max HRs are wrong. Your max heart rate is in the typical range. Higher than average for your age, which is neither good or bad.

Recommendation. You don't want to be on the upper edge of the zone when you exercise. The "percent of heart rate reserve" formula tends to give a different result than the "percent max hr formula". Both are guesses at the point where workouts create autonomic stress, and the guesses can differ. CROSS CHECK whatever heart rate you use for long/slow work with some other test, like can you read a paragraph out loud int he middle of your workout. Your previous zones may have been low. Low is safe. The upper end of the new zones based on 189 may be too high, especially if you try to get your average HR at the upper end of the zone instead of capping your HR at the upper end. Your results so far are GREAT (287 --> 194 and getting stronger). If you find the new zones push you out of the conversational range back off a bit, especially if you are working out 3 or more times a week.

[gvcormac]

Don't compare your times with those on the Concept 2 log. From a health perspective, if your resting HR is 48 and you can do 2km in under 9 minutes, you're doing fine.

If you want to push yourself (as is the wont of many -- especially those who use the logbook) go ahead! But don't feel you have to. And if you do, make sure the the majority of your training is at a comforatable pace.

I use HR more to tell me when to back off ... if it is elevated before, during, or after my routine workouts I know I need to make an adjustment.