Concept2 Forum

I'm easing myself into using my rowerg to get my fitness back. And this week I rowed two days consecutively. I'm probably at a low level and rowing isn't an exercise I have much experience of. I'm not doing a long row in time or distance but I feel it in my calves more than anything. I'm obviously training my muscles in a new way so need to give it time. I'm a walker and cyclist so my legs are actually quite strong.

My issue is I've just had the worst session I've had and I'm certain it's recovery. How do you know it's recovery issues? What time between sessions do you typically have, both as beginner and after more experience? Do you row in consecutive days? Did you do that from the start of your rowerg use or ease into n it with non-consecutive sessions? Any recovery advice? How can you tell if it is recovery issues?

You're a bit short on information. What work do you do, usually, on and off the erg, and how much? How did you learn to row?

Rowing will use your muscles differently so you will be putting strain on some previously under-used muscles. I get calf pain if I am rowing "on my toes", so worth noticing whether you are quickly getting your heels down and driving off your soles. Rowing most days isn't an issue long term (pros sometimes do 3 sessions a day!) as rowing is not as stressful on joints as running. As we age this gets harder, so this may not be true for everyone when 70+. That said, you need to get the intensity right. Performance on the 2nd day will often be a little down and so most programs alternate harder rows with longer slower ones. I'm sure you know well from other sports that recovery is aided by cooling down and stretching after the row. I find this is more true of rowing than running or hill walking.

As for knowing whether it is recovery, there are different types of "issues". But paying attention to your body helps. i.e. was your HR elevated before the start? Was the difficulty maintaining your normal rating or the pace that your normal rating generated? Have you checked your HR variability? no one thing will distinguish the cause and I have had days when I have started feeling that I am under recovered and then pulled a PB. Similarly we all have off days. Basically it is about establishing a routine that works for you. It is personal preference how hard you want to push the sessions. Personally I would rather push longer rows towards 2 hours and take a day off rather than do back to back sub-maximal rows, but that isn't for everyone.

Let us know how you get on.

I agree with Iain, as you need to find what works for you rather than trying to use someone else's strategy.

Recovery is a strange thing as you can all too quickly blame lack of recovery for a bad session, but in reality bad days can happen no matter what you do, and as Iain has mentioned the best days can come from very low expectations. However, recovery from a previous session is important as you need time to adapt and repair.

Personally I can row six days consecutively, but I'd recommend doing every other day if you're still fairly new to it. You ideally need to learn to analyse, assess and adjust to what your feeling on a micro and macro level: ie during a row, and during a week or month.

JoeChaos wrote: ↑

June 10th, 2021, 7:46 pm

I'm easing myself into using my rowerg to get my fitness back. And this week I rowed two days consecutively. I'm probably at a low level and rowing isn't an exercise I have much experience of. I'm not doing a long row in time or distance but I feel it in my calves more than anything. I'm obviously training my muscles in a new way so need to give it time. I'm a walker and cyclist so my legs are actually quite strong.

My issue is I've just had the worst session I've had and I'm certain it's recovery. How do you know it's recovery issues? What time between sessions do you typically have, both as beginner and after more experience? Do you row in consecutive days? Did you do that from the start of your rowerg use or ease into n it with non-consecutive sessions? Any recovery advice? How can you tell if it is recovery issues?

You really need to find that out yourself. Elite people cycle a grand tour and recover. While average Joe could never do one stange.
One miss session does not matter, its even helpfull, you knew you where not recovered.
Even so, I do think at lower intensities we should be able to row (almost) daily. Just like walking, cycling, swimming.

Re Calves, that does sounds like a technique issue or stiffness in the calve area. Could be that you as a walker, have well trained calves and overuse them when you row. With likely less use of the quads, which should do more work?

Any recovery advice?

If 24 hours is not enough, 48 will be. Or just row one day on, one off, 3-4 a week.

In general, training does not cause recovery problems, because it's planned not to. See the Interactives; you have to choose your level.

Just an observation as someone new who is doing the BPP, I've blamed recovery for a few "bad rows" but in hindsight, I think that for beginners the pacing of the row is so crucial that it totally overshadows any issue I may have had with recovery (and still does). Obviously for the advanced rowers emptying the tank doing really long rows is a different ball game. I'm 57 been inactive for a number of months but had very little aches or pains from the Erg, which is kinder on my body than cycling, which in turn was kinder on my body than running. My feelings are that burning off around 500 calories has not stressed my body out on the Erg to the extent I can not row consecutive days, it is a very kind machine physically in that way. Mentally recovery may be different but again for me that has been linked to issues with pace.

Blindside makes a really good comment.

It's all too easy to chase the ego satisfying pace, that you've probably seen other people doing, but if it's draining you, it's counter productive.

Don't think in terms of your pace is slow, think of it as something to improve on week by week. Reduce your pace by 5 seconds (average) and see how you feel after that. Don't think you need to be crawling off the rower in a sweaty hyperventilating mess. Occasionally you do, but you won't progress if you don't build the necessary foundations.

Your perception of what you do is very important, after all it's not what you look at, it is what you see.

All good advice. Especially chasing the ego satisfying pace (guilty).

Another thing to consider is that Recovery isn't only the amount of time between workouts. It's also the amount of sleep and proper nutrition. The better that you attend to those factors as well, the better the recovery.

Partying until late at night and boozing it up may be the stuff of legends (and I suspect often exaggerated; observing an athlete doing it after a hard race and extrapolating it in one's mind to a daily routine), but doesn't work for most of us. While life doesn't have to be totally boring, better sleep and nutrition choices help a great deal in the long run.

JoeChaos wrote: ↑

June 10th, 2021, 7:46 pm

I...How do you know it's recovery issues? What time between sessions do you typically have, both as beginner and after more experience? Do you row in consecutive days? Did you do that from the start of your rowerg use or ease into n it with non-consecutive sessions? Any recovery advice? How can you tell if it is recovery issues?

When you start rowing your leg,core,back,arm rowing muscles will be weaker than oxygen delivery (especially since you say you are a cyclist). So the Heart Rate Adjusted training techniques will not work. GO SLOW until you get up to minimum rowing fitness. A few weeks, maybe six. Treat this like starting lifting. Do not use the same body parts two days in a row. ( Later you can happily row 6 days/week just make most of your rows long slow rows.) Think about doing sit-ups. Someone not used to doing situps who tries to do 50/day is going to have trouble by the third day. But once you get used to situps you can do them every morning.

Once you are OK with rowing follow the same workout/recovery scheduling techniques used for cycling. Sport research has shown endurance sports train the same (nordic skiing, distance running, cycling, rowing, etc).

Suggest you listen to this guy for setting up your training sessions to allow adequate recovery time. See how he mixes intervals/hard sessions with long, slow session and very slow recovery sessions and rest days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9SvLGv2c1E

Again, the muscles soreness you feel if you go too hard in the first few weeks is not the same as the overreaching/overtraining problems that correctly constructed workouts avoid. They are start up muscle overuse problems. Just go slow until you are at starting base rowing fitness. There is no need to feel sore to get into condition.

Blindside wrote: ↑

June 12th, 2021, 5:33 am

Obviously for the advanced rowers emptying the tank doing really long rows is a different ball game. I'm 57 been inactive for a number of months but had very little aches or pains from the Erg, which is kinder on my body than cycling, which in turn was kinder on my body than running. My feelings are that burning off around 500 calories has not stressed my body out on the Erg to the extent I can not row consecutive days, it is a very kind machine physically in that way. Mentally recovery may be different but again for me that has been linked to issues with pace.

As food for thought, i am a novice compared to many posting on this forum, but rest is an integral part of any exercise plan, for beginners or experienced rowers.

Whether one rows every day or not, at any level, the time needed for recovery will be a function of a number of factors, but there is still a need. The need may vary from one person to the next, but that does not detract from the fact that everyone's body needs time to recover, nutrition, form, fitness all play a part, as does the nature of the exercise youre undertaking.

FWIW -- my son rowed on Purdue University Crew ... a CLUB team. His coaches said team members could erg every day with no risk -- no muscle recovery needed, as is needed for lifting weights, for example -- even though he erged rather aggressively (~1:50 splits) for 15K workouts. I assume the coaches knew what they were talking about. Sure, the kids were 18 - 21 years old -- huge advantage! But conceptually probably relates to older folks on a relative basis.

I'm 68 and erg nearly every day during the Challenges in particular. NO, I'm not going hard -- my average splits are ~2:38 including warm up meters for a total of around ~4km/session depending on the challenge. I have found that I row better -- stronger -- more consistently and feel better when I row daily versus every other day. But again, I'm "not training" per se and hardly going balls to the walls -- my goal is just trying to keep everything moving for as long as I can ... and being able to enjoy a couple of guilt-free beers!

Perhaps some of these thoughts might pertain to your goals.

Good info posting Bob, I had been wondering about this. As you say just keep it easy.

I agree with Bob, and erging every day is possible if you don't punish yourself, as it could be comparable to fast walking.

This is always caveated with you can only train as hard as you can rest, so there are a lot of variables in that statement. Sleep, work / life stress, nutrition etc will all play a part. I had no problem erging 150k, six days a week during lockdown, but I'd struggle to get much past 100k now I'm back at work.

Bob Evans wrote: ↑

August 18th, 2021, 8:58 pm

FWIW -- my son rowed on Purdue University Crew ... a CLUB team. His coaches said team members could erg every day with no risk -- no muscle recovery needed, as is needed for lifting weights, for example -- even though he erged rather aggressively (~1:50 splits) for 15K workouts. I assume the coaches knew what they were talking about. Sure, the kids were 18 - 21 years old -- huge advantage! But conceptually probably relates to older folks on a relative basis.

I'm 68 and erg nearly every day during the Challenges in particular. NO, I'm not going hard -- my average splits are ~2:38 including warm up meters for a total of around ~4km/session depending on the challenge. I have found that I row better -- stronger -- more consistently and feel better when I row daily versus every other day. But again, I'm "not training" per se and hardly going balls to the walls -- my goal is just trying to keep everything moving for as long as I can ... and being able to enjoy a couple of guilt-free beers!

Perhaps some of these thoughts might pertain to your goals.

You would hope that "the coaches knew what they were talking about." But if 1:50 for 15K was a moderate to heavy load for your son then there is a lot of research saying that he risks overreaching/overtraining and related burn out. If 1:50 for 15K was a low load (less than 50-70% max heart rate) then there is a ton of data saying that's a good workout even done daily.