Keto

[bob01]

Hi has anyone got any thoughts /experience of the affect on performance of following a keto diet....perhaps targeted ????

[dsoucek]

bob01,
I followed a ketogenic diet (less than 20 g net carbs per day) for about 6 months in 2015. I had only been erging for a couple of months prior to starting the diet but was relatively fit aerobically from many years of running. I also had been in the the practice of doing long runs (up to 22 miles) for marathon training fasted and without any calories during the run so in that way, I was somewhat adapted to using body fat for fuel. Even so, when I first started the diet, it took a few weeks to adapt to feeling okay on the erg. I got "bonky" a few times. I found that adding extra salt to my diet helped with this a bit, and eventually I felt fine on rows as long as 12K. It is hard to compare performance to now (on a "normal" diet) because I am a lot more erg-fit now.
The diet worked well; I lost weight. I've come to recognize though that any of these diets, whether keto, intermittent fasting (which I've also tried and lost weight on), etc., are just different ways to help with compliance to a calorie deficit, which is truly what drives weight loss.
Currently, I am not trying to lose weight. My training includes both strength and erg training so I am on maintenance calories with ~45% as carbs and that is working well for me.
my two cents.
Dave

[Ombrax]

This isn't directly related to the OP's question, but perhaps of interest just the same.

A while back I read this story in the NYT about the effect of ketogenic diets on the brain and decided that they were not for me. I would worry that anything that can have such a dramatic impact (although in the article it's a beneficial effect) could also have unanticipated and potentially negative side-effects. YMMV

https://nyti.ms/2k9ZVYZ

[EV_Simon]

There are a number of MMA / Performance Athletes who live a Keto lifestyle, the initial "keto flu" feeling can be mitigated by taking extra electrolytes (High5 Zero are particularly good although really you're looking to increase your sodium, potassium and magnesium and you can do that without using branded electrolytes).

Now depending on which version of Keto you're following you can go from 25g - 100g, (although 100g is more low carb than pure Keto), I know people who stick to under 10 and only eat OMAD (One Meal A Day) and survive, I know others who eat 30 - 50 and still maintain their ketosis.

The important thing in my opinion is realizing that whilst you're transitioning to a fat adapted state you're going to see a drop in performance initially, however once you are fat adapted you're going to discover that you have the energy levels you need to continue exercising and increasing your performance.

Now let me add about the affects of Keto on the brain and body, being long term keto can have an affect on not just your brain but also your body, that's from increased mental clarity (lack of brain fog) to decreased blood pressure and increased health, it's been shown to reduce type 2 diabetes (be careful if you're type 1 diabetic, go see your doctor before looking at a keto lifestyle because being type 1 can lead to ketoacidosis which if left untreated will cause death) and can also reduce the risks of heart attacks by reducing your triglycerides. In addition to that it can also increase your good HDL Cholesterol numbers (offsetting the bad LDL numbers).

Being keto / low carb has been an eye opener for me, it's helped with weightloss and I have definitely seen an increase in my mental acuity, it's not for everyone however and I would strongly advise investigating fully before going that way, just remember that if you do look at living a Keto / Low Carb lifestyle that your performance initially will decrease, however once fat adapted performance levels will return.

Now I do want to advise, I am not a doctor and would highly recommend speaking to your physician before going on a keto / low carb lifestyle (actually it was my doctor who put me on it for medical purposes) but I have been nothing but impressed with living keto / low carb for the last 6 months.

[lindsayh]

if you go back a couple of years there was a lot of talk here on the training threads about low (and no) carb diets because Shawn Baker was documenting his training and diet here with a lot of discussion. (he is a specialist orthopaedic surgeon and sprinter/weights demon)

[Tenshuu]

if you go back a couple of years there was a lot of talk here on the training threads about low (and no) carb diets because Shawn Baker was documenting his training and diet here with a lot of discussion. (he is a specialist orthopaedic surgeon and sprinter/weights demon)

He still pokes around on here, or did. Recently he had a thread closed for pseudo-advertising his carnivore diet outlets.

He's definitely a bear and has some significant athletic achievements.
I've never been full blown keto, just very low carb, between 80-120g range daily, I felt great lifting and rowing on that level - but the foods I liked to eat just didn't work out for putting myself in a true keto state.

I think if you feel good after the initial low performance stage, and feel better or back on track, it will probably work well for anyone. If you can't shake the low energy feel though, maybe just Increase the carb intake a little bit and see if it levels you out.

[jackarabit]

Tenshuu, please link to the locked thread referenced. I can’t find it. I understand that the errant sp.a. m. will have been removed but want to review the occasion and context of Doc Baker’s post. “Poking about . . .” is not the characterization one would expect to find applied to Dr. Baker, who, in my experience of his interactions on this forum, is a gentleman who does not waste time poking about in either his athletic career or his thoughtful posts on sports nutrition.

[Tenshuu]

Tenshuu, please link to the locked thread referenced. I can’t find it. I understand that the errant sp.a. m. will have been removed but want to review the occasion and context of Doc Baker’s post. “Poking about . . .” is not the characterization one would expect to find applied to Dr. Baker, who, in my experience of his interactions on this forum, is a gentleman who does not waste time poking about in either his athletic career or his thoughtful posts on sports nutrition.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=185477&p=467271&hil ... et#p467271

I just figured his appearance at that time was "poking" about because I hadn't seen his name pop up recently until that thread.


Edit: reading back through, it didn't feel like a promotion of his services, outside of a thread being titled "Carnivore Rowing" - Maybe the offending post was removed. I came into the thread later on after it was locked.

[jackarabit]

Thanx for linking the offending thread Tenshuu. Certainly not a disinterested testimonial. Perhaps he took for granted that most here would already be aware of his promotional activities on other internet sites?

[lindsayh]

Thanx for linking the offending thread Tenshuu. Certainly not a disinterested testimonial. Perhaps he took for granted that most here would already be aware of his promotional activities on other internet sites?

I actually had no idea Jack. There is a lot of the previous discussions available by searching by name or "Sprints and stuff" which is the name of the locked thread from 2 years ago.

[hjs]

Tenshuu, please link to the locked thread referenced. I can’t find it. I understand that the errant sp.a. m. will have been removed but want to review the occasion and context of Doc Baker’s post. “Poking about . . .” is not the characterization one would expect to find applied to Dr. Baker, who, in my experience of his interactions on this forum, is a gentleman who does not waste time poking about in either his athletic career or his thoughtful posts on sports nutrition.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=185477&p=467271&hil ... et#p467271

I just figured his appearance at that time was "poking" about because I hadn't seen his name pop up recently until that thread.


Edit: reading back through, it didn't feel like a promotion of his services, outside of a thread being titled "Carnivore Rowing" - Maybe the offending post was removed. I came into the thread later on after it was locked.

He is very active on twitter, and on the extreme side of diets, 100% carnivore, on twitter a lot of “action” around versus the other extreme vegans.

Think C2 closed the thread to not burn themselves on this subject.

But in short Shawn, has nothing with Keto, but 100% eats meat, and only drinks water.

On the rower he only does sprintstuff, low volume high intensity.

[lindsayh]

he was interviewed on Australian TV recently to give the contra view in a doco about veganism!

[jackarabit]

Sprints and Stuff was closed largely due to the bizarre stalking behavior of a certain cuckoo bird later banned. Baker’s participation in the forum was collateral damage in that episode. His choice of course. A crying shame imo.

[T_M]

Sprints and Stuff was closed largely due to the bizarre stalking behavior of a certain cuckoo bird later banned. Baker’s participation in the forum was collateral damage in that episode. His choice of course. A crying shame imo.

Agree 100% Jack. He is also very active on Instagram which I look into a few times a week...so there is some consolation if one is inclined to keep up with his training, diet or clashes with the vegan community.

[bob01]

Hi Josh

I did feel the restriction on fruit made it a no no for me too

But I did increase veggies ... So probably no loss there

Big problem was Mrs not following it too... And setting cake traps

I felt like **** too and training performance was compromised. But gradually improved