Heart Rate Lags Behind Work?

[christopherd]

Hello everyone.

When I first started training I was well out of shape. I still technically am, but I've been working on that since late June.

Somewhat important to keep in mind is that I have anxiety about my heart rate and health, and this is impacting my perception of what is normal (plus a lack of experience). One time when my heart rate monitor started showing my heart rate dropping steadily in the midst of a workout (it should have remained steady or increased based on the work I was doing), I panicked and ripped the thing off, not wanting to see it reach zero and go full on panic attack mode. So yeah, just a touch paranoid about this, even though I have a clean bill of health from my doctor and cardiologist.

Anyway, the exercise I did today was a 5x500m AFAP Negative split, 28-30-32-34-34 s/m. 35 yo, 238lb. 6'0 27% bf

The first set went OK, my HR started at 108, climbing to 113 halfway, jumped to 146 over the next 100 meters, and maxed at 159. All is well there I think, I just started off a bit cold.

Second set I started at 120 bpm, my HR lowered to around 115 until 200m into the row, then started climbing back up as I felt my legs tiring. That dip was concerning at the time and I had to push myself not to freak out because I was doing a lot of work. What would cause that dip?

Was it just that I didn't have a proper warmup? I felt 108 was a bit low to be starting, but I had lifted weights prior to this session and just did a quick 5 minute warmup.

Thoughts? Is this a normal thing to be going through while aerobic conditioning?

[jamesg]

You could take a longer view, starting at say 120W for five minutes, then gradually move up, until rowing steadily at 150-200 W, rating 20-22 for 30-40 minutes. HR data during such work will be more reliable and will help you determine a sustainable power level for future aerobic work.

HR is slow react and of no great importance anyway, while Watts and Pace show immediately. If W is too low we won't even sweat, if it's too high we're forced to stop (unless very fit), so most training is done somewhere in the middle: high enough to represent work, not so high that it forces us to stop.

NB heart rate was used in the old days as a proxy for Work, when there was no possible way of measuring real power. The C2 changed all that, we can see exactly how much power we are delivering to the machine. It also shows us rating (spm), so we can estimate the Power/Rating ratio and so get an idea of the quality of our rowing. It's too easy to just shuttle fast up and down the slide and think we are doing work, but the numbers give us away.

Anyway, the exercise I did today was a 5x500m AFAP Negative split, 28-30-32-34-34 s/m. 35 yo, 238lb. 6'0 27% bf

What were your rest times and Watt levels during that? I'd think work like that should be done extremely fast, say over 400W, somewhere near the end of a complete 6-month endurance program.

[hjs]

Don,t worry, short reps are not suited for hf analisis. If you felt not warm enough, do more wu, with enough intensity. But still don,t worry about it.

[georgeed]

I see that some times (not always). When you start the next rep your breathing rate accelerates but the oxygen demand hasn't made itself known, so the heart rate continues to drop from where it was at the end of the rest period. Don't fret about it - wait another 2 months until you see what is normal for you.

[left coaster]

this is a great thread, finally someone else who over thinks their HR.

One thing to keep in mind is that many of the HR monitor straps are known to have issues. I have a Garmin soft strap and it has basically failed, it does this really stupid anxiety inducing thing of reading double what my HR actually is and will 'jump' to this at random points in my workout. Even though I 'knew' it was inaccurate, it was still super distracting and pulled my mind away from the task at hand. Another thing for me is that my HR max is a bit lower than many and my HR is rather slow to come up, all normal for my age and level of fitness actually. I also discovered that when my HR was going up above 150 I would start to throttle back out of some stupid concern that it may go too fast or something. I've mentioned this in other posts, it's a bit of introspective self amusement at this point.

I eventually just stopped using a monitor and enjoy my workouts a bit more now. I've also concluded the following: My heart beats, sometimes slow, sometimes fast. Beyond this, I can exercise as hard as I can and it won't stop and nothing bad will happen.

I've read about other people who need to cover the HR monitor output on their erg display as well. I may look at doing this in the future so I have a record of my HR. However, I'm not a professional athlete and my training regime isn't very structured so the additional bit of info from HR isn't really all that useful to me.

[christopherd]

Sorry I've been away, I didn't just forget about this post.

Thanks to everyone for the replies so far. It's good to know I'm not the only one and the idea of measuring RPE with just a number, while it would be great, just isn't feasible.

Tomorrow is test day and I'll probably block out the heart-rate and just go by how it feels instead of what numbers I'm seeing.

[aussieluke]

First thought would be to try a different HR monitor. I too have had troubles with my Garmin straps. Though mostly when running - due to static from running shorts interfering with the monitor.

I do all my rowing at home shirtless so don't have the same trouble. But get different readings from different straps. My Garmin hard strap gets very sweaty and the elastic is poor so is hard to keep in place and sometimes I notice my HR hasn't changed for a while until I move it.

Garmin soft strap seems fairly reliable for rowing. Terrible for running.

But I bought a wahoo tickr which works perfectly for running and has no issues from static etc so I use that for most of my rowing too.

I haven't tried yet, but as the tickr is dual band I could link it to the pm4 via ANT and also my phone via Bluetooth at the same time to get both readings. I might try that soon.


I would also suggest to do some long steady pieces. If your HR starts low, gradually builds then levels out, then after half an hour or so starts to climb some more as you get warm, then I'd guess it's all reading normally.

[aussieluke]

Also, some Garmin straps are known for having dropouts and a downward curve of HR the further into a workout you go - I believe it is mostly due to sweat buildup in the strap material, and mostly that bit of the strap between the two sensor pads where the monitor pod attaches - salt and moisture builds up and causes conductivity problems.

You're meant to wash the straps in the machine with a normal load every week or so to prevent it.

But from everything I read (and I read a lot trying to figure out the problems with mine), the concensus is that once a Garmin strap starts to show sings of failing, it is doomed and just needs replacing.

Seriously for $70 (Aus) the Wahoo Tickr was a big win for me. All problems instantly solved.

[Carl Watts]

Soft straps need a rinse in water after every workout, don't leave the sweat on it. Just chuck the strap in a sink full of hot water before you jump in the shower and then dry it with a towel when you get out.

The Garmin ANT+ hard version is better with the battery arrangement and its really easier to keep clean, the soft strap version is a backup for me.

Far better overall than the Polar system, you know when the strap is not transmitting because you cannot see it listed on the monitor and it has a much greater range.

[aussieluke]

Soft straps need a rinse in water after every workout, don't leave the sweat on it. Just chuck the strap in a sink full of hot water before you jump in the shower and then dry it with a towel when you get out.

The Garmin ANT+ hard version is better with the battery arrangement and its really easier to keep clean, the soft strap version is a backup for me.

Far better overall than the Polar system, you know when the strap is not transmitting because you cannot see it listed on the monitor and it has a much greater range.

but unless you've been rinsing it from day 1, it will likely be clogged up and ruined by now. You can put them in the machine on a 40 deg wash with regular clothes - some have said several washes in a row may help to undo the damage

seems to me the garmin straps are so riddled with problems you might as well just replace it. and unless you need the running metrics available from their premium strap, IMO the basic Tickr is a much better option.