Wrist pain and rowing.

[silkybeard69]

I am new to this forum, but I've been rowing since January. I developed low back pain and wrist pain. I figured out the low back pain, deadlifts, lol. Now the wrist pain I think I have figured out too.i have a wide chest, it always seemed like the handle was just too narrow. My grip was very loose, but at the end of the stroke, there was always this angle in my wrist. I purchased a set of canvas d rings, and fanned a block to connect it to the change, wrist now have a full range of motion. I think problem solved. Purists will probably go ape. I will post a couple pics. Let me know what you think! Well I tried to upload a pic, said file was too big.

[jackarabit]

Yes everyone is a purist and hard man until _________? I say whatever keeps your socks up!

[Bob S.]

Purists will probably go ape.

Purism is generally a pointless pursuit in any sport except those which require judging form like gymnastics.

As far as indoor rowing is concerned, all sorts of clever devises have been tried out on the C2 indoor rower and some have had some success. However, competitions and top-ranked events have to be done only on unaltered machines to count in the records. Even a device designed and sold by Concept 2, the slides, are not allowed for top records. My own C2 machine, a dynamic, is sufficiently different from the standard machines (B. C. D, and E) that the times and distances that I do on it do not count for records. I can list them in the rankings, but they are labelled as having been done on the dynamic model.

Edit: I need to qualify that. There are special events in which C2 machines are used for rowing with arms only, or back and arms only, or other qualifications, but those are all spelled out clearly and the events are closely regulated.

[silkybeard69]

Thanks for the input, wish I could figure out how to post a pic, I would show setup.

[silkybeard69]

Cool, figured it out , look at attachment .

[sekitori]

Purism is generally a pointless pursuit in any sport except those which require judging form like gymnastics.

Even in gymnastics, purism gave way to reason. No one had ever been given a "10" in Olympic gymnastic competition because a "!0" was considered to be perfect and the purists thought that no gymnast could achieve perfection. Then came Nadia Comaneci and her 10. I'm sure many gymnastic purists were very upset by that.

By definition, a purist is one who wants something to remain true to its nature and free from influences that may affect it. Purism not only is pointless in regard to sports, but also to virtually everything else. You have figured out a very clever, unconventional way to solve a problem concerning something you enjoy doing. I congratulate you for it. And if some purists happen to go ape because you didn't exactly use a more "normal" approach such as a wider handle that would be harder to control, that's their problem, not yours. As you can tell, I don't care for purists very much.

[silkybeard69]

@sekitori...... Thanks for the input, I really think this could help out someone nursing a elbow or wrist injury. I think I have figured out my problem. #1.... Deadlifting too heavy. #2.....I was using my wrist at the end of the stroke, kind of turning them in. But the drings have allowed me to row while I was injured. Gives you great range of motion.again, thanks for the positive feedback!

[Slidewinder]

At various times in this forum, users of the C2 ergometer have complained of chronic wrist pain. Some users, like "silkybeard" here, have modified or replaced the rigid, single-piece stock handle to enable the bio-mechanically correct alignment of the hands, wrists, and forearms with the direction of applied force, throughout the stroke. Like good little C2 groupies though, no one dares to state the obvious: that the stock handle is a bio-mechanical abomination. The response in this case, to "silkybeard', is to ignore the design deficiency of the rigid stock handle, and to shift the discussion to the permissibility of handle modifications in competitions. It is the consensus of all "purists" (in accordance with C2 dictates) that it is right and proper that race results and records should not be valid unless the competitor uses the stone-age, injury-inducing implement (the rigid, single-piece handle) which C2 supplies with their units.

[Carl Watts]

You didn't say if the handle from Concept 2 was a Model C - the wooden version or the Model D which is plastic.

The D is more ergonomic as it has an angle, its also wider. It should be noted that some people actually end up using the handle UPSIDE DOWN, this is a mistake.

I found the newer handle better for me as I could increase the grip width, personally I have not had wrist problems and many problems can be traced back to technique and the pure fact your using muscles and tendons in ways that have not experienced the loads required.

I have now been rowing for about 5 years and have no problems with the handle supplied by Concept 2.

[Slidewinder]

Silkybeard writes, "...at the end of the stroke, there was always this angle in my wrists."
We have all seen stop-action photos of competitors on C2 machines (C handle and D handle) with their wrists at an awkward angle at the end of the stroke. This has nothing to do with technique, and everything to do with the handle. That Mr. Watts has "no problems" with the C2 handle, does not change the reality that having one's wrists at an angle, under load, is bio-mechanically unsound, and increases the risk of injury.

[Carl Watts]

Most of the load is at the initial part of the drive, your wrists have the potential to be pretty straight with the OEM handle.

Even if your pulling the handle right back to your chest your legs and back have finished so you just looking for that last bit of power.

Should't think the OTW action is by any means perfect either, pretty hard to keep the wrists straight during an Arc movement. It is what it is, with the right training your body adapts.

More people complain of a sore backside than they do of sore wrists.

Correct technique should be your first priority before you immediately go looking for something to compensate for your lack of form.

[Slidewinder]

With Silkybeard's modification, and other similar modifications previously described in this forum, there is not just a "potential" for the hands, wrists, and forearms to be in bio-mechanically correct alignment under load, they will be in alignment under load. All those who have made such modifications (and I am one of them) testify that it is a huge improvement over the stock handle, and that they no longer suffer from the wrist pain which is directly related to the rigid, uncompromising stock handle. The stock handle forces the user to adapt to the machine. The handle is the user/machine interface. At any human/machine interface, the machine should adapt to the user, not the user to the machine. The described modifications correct this blatant stock handle deficiency.

[Slidewinder]

Like a shoe manufacturer that offers just one size of shoe, Concept 2 has foisted a one-size-fits-all handle on its customers. It is easy for users, such as Mr. Watts, who finds this handle a good fit to his particular anatomy, to cry "poor technique" to all those with a different anatomy which the stock handle doesn't fit. It is like ridiculing those who complain of foot pain when it is only possible to buy a size ten shoe. Silkybeard's modification, and similar others shared by various forum members, fit every size anatomy (which is a comment on the skills of C2 designers). To use the shoe analogy again: when a shoe fits properly, it is easy to walk properly. So too, when a rowing ergometer handle fits properly, it is easy to "row" properly.

[hjs]

Like a shoe manufacturer that offers just one size of shoe, Concept 2 has foisted a one-size-fits-all handle on its customers. It is easy for users, such as Mr. Watts, who finds this handle a good fit to his particular anatomy, to cry "poor technique" to all those with a different anatomy which the stock handle doesn't fit. It is like ridiculing those who complain of foot pain when it is only possible to buy a size ten shoe. Silkybeard's modification, and similar others shared by various forum members, fit every size anatomy (which is a comment on the skills of C2 designers). To use the shoe analogy again: when a shoe fits properly, it is easy to walk properly. So too, when a rowing ergometer handle fits properly, it is easy to "row" properly.

The concept is a rowing simulation/trainingtool. So a handle that simulates rowing is pretty logic. People are ofcourse free to adept their machine to personal liking.
And for injury, wristinjuries are certainly not common. Its more lower back, glutepain and blisters that are seen pretty often.

And for racing, doing sports is not trying to prevent injury in the first place, but getting a level playing field. If everbody would use a different machine racing would become very difficult. Per machine there are heats, you can rebuild the machine for every heat to begin with.

For healthreasons its a different matter, Its pretty easy to make your own handle or seat.

[Slidewinder]

hjs writes, "The concept is a rowing simulation/training tool. So a handle that simulates rowing is pretty logic."
The C2 stock handle simulates neither a sweep action nor a sculling action. Silkybeard's modification, and similar others, enables a movement which more closely replicates a sculling action than the C2 stock handle, with the additional benefit of being bio-mechanically sound.