Low back pain and concept2 rower (SkiErg better?)

[T_B]

Thx hjs! Some questions below.

Point one, you don,t move you back at all

That is something I do deliberately to avoid putting pressure on my back. I thought when you had back problems you should keep a straight back and don't lean back?

, stbthe catch your chest should be way close to your thighs.

I assume you want me to bend more forward before the catch, then I will need to bend my back more. Also something I was deliberately avoiding...

And at the backstop you don,t have a layback. It should be 1 oclock to 11 oclock. Thay way the stroke is longer.
Knees, to compensate for the lack of backmovement you overreach the knees. You go beyond vertical.

I just checked other rowing technique video's and indeed I overreach there.

And overall, you don,t use the legs, back, arms order, but overlap those movements way to early.

OK

Also rowing strapless is harder on the back. So maybe for you atm not so handy.

Harder on the back? I got advise (and have seen it in more posts) that rowing strapless is better if you have problems with your back. That is exactly why I stopped using the straps. Is there no consensus on this topic?

[Bob S.]

It is not a bending of the back. Keep your back as straight as possible. Pivot your torso at the hips to get the forward and back swings.

The point of rowing strapless is to help keep your drive sequence correct. It didn't seem to work that way in your case, probably because you were taking easy strokes at a low rate. Under those conditions the sequence problems didn't show up, even though it is obvious in the video then your elbows start to bend before your legs are straight. With a harder leg push and a higher rate, you would have had the problem of going over backwards without straps.

Bob S.

[rakserv]

hello,
someone else just started a thread on lower back pain; http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=73095

regarding your original question: i use both concept2 rowers (model c/d) & skiergs (1st Gen & 2nd Gen) and with respect to lower back pain, i have had some using the rower but have not with skierg. my experience makes me suspect that the lower back soreness from the rower was from a breakdown in technique (possibly from a weak core and/or fatigue). on the skierg, the lower back doesn't seem to be exposed / involve in the same manner, so it is lower risk for injury.

not sure it this helps or is moot since your original post was from two years plus years ago

[hjs]

If you can play soccer, your back is not that bad. So movement is not the problem. Maybe pulling hard is. So don,t that.

Letting you back move in a natural way will only help. The way you now move has little do with erging. Try to make more natural range of motion, but keep the pace easy. Erging is as hard a you make it yourself.
Strapless limits you range of motion, and this makes the backstop more abrupt on the back, instead of more fluent.

In short try to make the stroke longer, use legs, back and arms, instead of only the legs and arms. The longer range make the stroke on average soften. You have more time and distance to pull.

If you can,t, rowing s really not suited for you, but again,mif you can kick and run, your back is not bad.

[T_B]

regarding your original question: i use both concept2 rowers (model c/d) & skiergs (1st Gen & 2nd Gen) and with respect to lower back pain, i have had some using the rower but have not with skierg. my experience makes me suspect that the lower back soreness from the rower was from a breakdown in technique (possibly from a weak core and/or fatigue). on the skierg, the lower back doesn't seem to be exposed / involve in the same manner, so it is lower risk for injury.
not sure it this helps or is moot since your original post was from two years plus years ago

Interesting - and thanks for bringing it up. In those two years not a lot changed. I still have issues with my back and if rowing keeps being problematic the Skierg might be an alternative. I have seen more posts mentioning the Skierg being easier on the back. I will keep an eye on it.

[T_B]

It is not a bending of the back. Keep your back as straight as possible. Pivot your torso at the hips to get the forward and back swings.

Thanks. Will try that the next rowing session and post a new video if I feel comfortable with it.

[T_B]

If you can play soccer, your back is not that bad. So movement is not the problem. Maybe pulling hard is. So don,t that.

Well, I can play soccer and still love playing indoor soccer but my back feels very stiff after playing. Standing for a long time is even a worse 'exercise' for my back though. Standing - on a party or something like that - can become really painful. Not very uncommon and I think exercising my back is probably better than doing nothing. So I will certainly give your suggestions a try and as already mentioned to Bob S I will upload a new video later.

[hjs]

If you can play soccer, your back is not that bad. So movement is not the problem. Maybe pulling hard is. So don,t that.

Well, I can play soccer and still love playing indoor soccer but my back feels very stiff after playing. Standing for a long time is even a worse 'exercise' for my back though. Standing - on a party or something like that - can become really painful. Not very uncommon and I think exercising my back is probably better than doing nothing. So I will certainly give your suggestions a try and as already mentioned to Bob S I will upload a new video later.

If it makes you feel a hit better. I have poor back myself, soccer would be impossible, also due to a poor knee. Standing is also a no go. My back is never painfree, but I do erg and am relative ok pacewise.
Trying to strengthen the back helps. In squats, deadlifts, plankwork.

Ofcourse we proberly both don,t have the same problem, but sitting on the couch would help, do what you can do and use common sense. You video the other day was very very carefull. Try to loosen up, not by going much faster, but relax your movements a bit more.

[T_B]

At first I didn't want to share the video I made today (because the technique is clearly not correct yet), but changed my mind. Would be nice to see if I manage to find the main mistakes I make myself.

So here it is. http://vimeo.com/117944700
Feel free to comment

I think my drive and finish is now better - recovery not sure but I end up too straight and should be pivoting more forward. So the catch should start more forward and I still seem to be overreaching a bit - but the main reason is probably because I don't lean forward.

[Citroen]

You're still not using your legs enough. Get the drive with the legs complete before moving your body before moving your arms. Hands away and reverse the sequence, arms then body then legs.

You're also still over compressing at the front.

[hjs]

You're still not using your legs enough. Get the drive with the legs complete before moving your body before moving your arms. Hands away and reverse the sequence, arms then body then legs.

You're also still over compressing at the front.

Two things mostly for, the back moves nothing at all, at the catch you should not sit up, like now, but bend over from the hips. This will also cure the overbending of the legs.
Second the finish, to the sternum, not to the belly. That way you can lenghten the stroke a bit.

The general problem right now is that your current form is very cautious, it will not make you back hurt, the strokebs light as a feather, but also don,t do much for your fitness. Aldo any excercise beats nothing.
Really try to get the hand of getting your back in action, mayby just sit on the floor and just try to get moving back and forth with upperbody. Or do this on te erg, row fixed legs to get the hang of it.

[T_B]

Thanks for the comments on my video, that helps a lot. Will row again tomorrow and see if I can improve my technique.

This site has nice pics of the rowing technique that look helpful. Aimed for folks with back issues, so good for reference.
http://www.baroonaphysio.com.au/rowing- ... g6343.html

I thought I already was leaning back more this time, but I will try to get the angle similar to the pics in the link. Will probably take a while to get it all right though.

[Cayenne]

You might be interested in www.foundationtraining.com

[T_B]

Sorry for the bad quality, hopefully still good enough to see my technique.
http://vimeo.com/118170394
Hope it is a bit better than the last video. It was indeed more of an exercise this time.

It feels like I am really pivoting forward during the recovery but in the video it seems like my body is still too straight. I am not very flexible so that doesn't help either. Will try to push my body even further forward next time, but that might feel like squeezing and I am not sure if that will put a strain on my back.
Next training is Sunday so will try again then.

[T_B]

You might be interested in http://www.foundationtraining.com

Thanks.
I am sure that additional exercises for additional stability will be helpful. Done those in the past might start doing them again.