technical issues, right schoulder?

[bassongirl]

Hi guys,

Haven't been on the forum for a while. At the moment I feel totally frustrated and depressed. I haven't really been able to train in the last few weeks due to a cold and a lot of stress (I am currently taking over a medical practice). In other words, my fitness is totally shot. Nothing compared to last summer, when I set my previous personal best for a 2k with 8:33.9.
My right arm is giving me problems. It has always done that here and there in the last 20 months or so since I started indoor rowing (1.6m lifetime meters). But for about half a year now, I've noticed it after almost every training session. First the problem was in my wrist, then in my elbow and now, after a 3 week break, I immediately felt it in my shoulder again. It's not a real pain. But I can tell that something is irritated. The right shoulder feels heavier than the left. I can feel the biceps tendon in particular. I also went to the physio. He said that I'm not activating the lower left trapezius properly and am therefore overloading my right arm. I've been doing exercises for this since November.
Now my question is whether it's a technical problem. I've overcome myself and recorded a video (after 30 min rowing at 20 spm, approx. 100w average, not much, I know ).
Can you find anything that causes the problem on the right arm (I'm right-handed)? Or general technical issues? I'd be grateful for any advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5I8B1h2q1M

[Sakly]

Hi Julia, I cannot spot any other issue than overcompression at the catch, which brings you in a less stable position for knee and hips. If you stop a bit earlier and close your hips a bit more (which is only possible, when you stop earlier), you can have a stronger push on your drive and don't need to open your hips that early.

Regarding your shoulder issue, I cannot spot anything obvious.
Sometimes I have similar issues with my left shoulder, but this is mainly due to overload, when muscular fatigue kicks in and I don't stop. Typically strength training covers these issues in a short amount of time (and proper recovery of course).

[Me, Myself and I]

My take is you're going legs, arms, back. The handle is at your knees but your back is still straight. Seems like too much use of, pressure on your arms. Maybe two-thirds of the stroke is just arms. Your back is only involved at the end. Arms do work after legs and around half of hip swing/back. They do for me anyway. Then it's bend elbows not pull handle.

You're not keeping your wrists flat all the way. Could be a cause of some pain there.
Shins not vertical at the catch. Try raising the footrests a notch or two.
I see a ProW on the floor. Does it make any differnce if you use that?

In saying this I'm no expert by any means, but that's what I see as a layman.

[p_b82]

I'm certainly no expert either and congrats at all the others things you've got going on to still be able to do even some exercise; try not to be too downhearted!

Specific to your shoulder, I watched your clip back at 1/4 speed, and at 27s, you can clearly see that your arms are bending while at 3/4 slide (legs bent back about hinge a second time).
The first stroke you do however you don't bend the elbows, so concentrate on how that first stroke feels vs the rest - It's been mentioned on other threads, but you should feel a similar feeling to just doing a straight arm bar hang.

It also appears that you're hinging your back a couple of times; first during the drive from the catch to upright, and then again at the end to layback - this might just be exacerbated due to watching it in slowmo; but coupled with the over-compression at the catch, I think it's affecting the power of your leg drive as you aren't engaging the core as strongly as you could do.
It feels like your flexibility is working against you a little there (I have the opposite issue and have a shorter stroke length than I "should" due to inflexibility)

Might be worth doing just some legs and back drills with straight arms to "re-learn" the feelings and correct the sequence once you correct the catch position.

At 31s at the end of the stroke, your wrists are bent as well - Perhaps slightly changing your grip to keep that flatter as you pull to the chest may help; but I think the sequencing is likely going to have more of a marked difference.

[Dangerscouse]

The only other things I can think to mention are:

You're not death gripping the handle, but you may be gripping it too loosely. Probably not, but I know that it does put a bit of strain on my forearm if you grip too little.

Do you jump off your left leg? I wonder if you've got a slight weakness on your right side. We're all stronger on one side than the other, so have you tested your strength specifically for your left and right sides? It might be a slight imbalance.

Maybe try and do the leg engagement drill. Push with a slight emphasis on alternating legs (circa 70/30) will be good and see if you can notice a difference in the effort / power output

[reuben]

I'm neither in the medical field, nor am I a "real" rower, but if the issue is with your right arm, I'd suggest turning the erg around so that your right arm is visible in the video. Then maybe those more knowledgeable than I might see something, either on its own or as compared to the video from your left.

Other than that, if you're taking over a medical practice, I assume that you know some good physical therapists, et al. You've already seen one, but there's nothing wrong with getting a second, third, and fourth opinion. While I don't believe that this saying is entirely true, I do largely believe in its spirit - "No one will take better care of you than yourself."

If it's an issue of imbalance, as your physio implied, other exercises, whether they be strength, flexibility/range of motion, or other, can surely help. As someone with hereditary back issues which bother me but almost never stop me, I can say that flexibility/range of motion/yoga exercises can be a godsend. Also massage, whether by someone else, or using props in your own home. But that's just my personal experience - again, I'm not in the medical field.

And, I have to ask - do you play the basson/bassoon?

Good luck!

[bassongirl]

Thank you all for your answers and suggestions:
Yes, muscular imbalace is very likely the problem. I‘m actually really jumping of with the left leg. Leg drills might be a good idea. And yes, I also thought that I might grab too loosly.

I will try to improve technique while strengthning shoulders and legs. Biggest problem will be to stay consistent. But I‘ll try.

And yes, I used to play the bassoon but don‘t have time to play anymore. I feel that for me sport is more important than music.

[Steff]

Hi Julia, there are some things you may do differently to alleviate the obvious strain that the upper back and arms are experiencing at the catch - whether they help the discomfort I don't know - not a doctor - not a rowing coach either, but i do row OTW. What you are trying to feel is complete relaxation of those parts nearly all the way through the stroke - they just pick up on the movement at the very end and even then it's lats not traps.
This is what I do quite a lot during warm-up to get the sequence embedded in my thick head.
Firstly, I sit on the erg without picking up the handle, take up the position you had at :08 seconds, not over-compressed as you were after all the jiggles and lung with the upper body, now play with the foot-stretcher using only the feet and quads to lightly push - the body angle doesn't change, move the seat without moving the arms and body back just the bum, and then moving the arms and body back at the same pace as the bum - I don't change the body angle. I am trying to achieve two things: push only with the quads and feel the muscles in the core that stabilise the body (for you p_b82 spotted the right feel and look), so when we use the handle, only the legs and body are in tension and working - the upper back and arms feel like they are being pulled along with only stretching no tension. Once the legs are down, I swing the body using tight lats - hard to do without the handle.
Secondly, I sit on the erg without picking up the handle, take up the finish position sitting on the bones, cross the arms, and sit up using the lats, and slowly pivot forward without lifting the legs/knees - in fact holding them down keeping the feet in contact with the foot-stretcher, and slowly pivot from 1 to 11 o'clock and back and feel the muscles that need to work. Then, progress in the recovery so after the complete pivot forward - slowly lift the knees all the way to the chest and catch position.
Thirdly, I pick up the handle and warm up to develop a good sequence focussing on which muscles activate when, and at r20 counting one for stroke, one for arms and body pivot, and one for lifting the legs.
Notes for you:
you don't need to lift the handle so much at the catch but by consciously leaving it there, you will feel it take up in your hands as the legs drive the body away - timing is everything.
you can develop a lot more focus on pushing with the quads thru the feet onto the foot-stretcher.
Hope this helps, they are actually quite difficult exercises to do well and best to be embedded. And good on you for doing the video and being on the FF team. Cheers Stephen

[H2O]

Your posture looks better than mine. Currently I also have a pain in my shoulder, I row anyway. My philosophy has always been: if it doesn't get worse, keep going. Sometimes it just goes away suddenly. I would decrease the intensity a little and keep going and see what happens.

There are some stretch band exercises that I do regularly and that may help: stand upright with arms lifted up over your head, V shaped and slightly forward holding a stretch band, thumbs pointing outward. Then pull down and apart (stretching the band) until the stretched band hits the top of your legs. I'll see if I can find a youtube video. AthleanX on youtube has many useful exercises, the keyword is "external rotation".

On youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JObYtU7Y7ag

[mict450]

The shoulders are the most complex joints in the body with a lot of inherent instability to facilitate a wide range of motion. The shoulder muscles are relatively weak compared to the back muscles & depend on their help to stabilize the joint.

To facilitate recruitment of the lats, imagine trying to bend the handle into an upside-down "U" shape.

Activate the lats from the start of the drive till the finish.