Blood work?

General discussions about getting and staying fit that don't relate directly to your indoor rower
Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3474
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: Blood work?

Post by Sakly » October 23rd, 2023, 11:14 pm

Fully agree to recommendations, I already pointed to your daily calories and wondering about them being on the lower side.
Also agree to strength work is more important and should be done at least 2, better 3 times a week. Short sessions with basic exercises are absolutely fine and can be combined with harder rowing sessions, so your rowing schedule must not be compromised.
Basically these recommendations are very related to how I implement my training and my calories are a good bit higher even weighting a bit less (knowing we are not all equal....).
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 358m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:15.9
500m: 1:26.0
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:39.6
6k: 21:03.5
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

jcross485
6k Poster
Posts: 810
Joined: February 27th, 2022, 10:04 am

Re: Blood work?

Post by jcross485 » October 24th, 2023, 9:42 am

Sakly wrote:
October 23rd, 2023, 11:14 pm
Fully agree to recommendations, I already pointed to your daily calories and wondering about them being on the lower side.
Also agree to strength work is more important and should be done at least 2, better 3 times a week. Short sessions with basic exercises are absolutely fine and can be combined with harder rowing sessions, so your rowing schedule must not be compromised.
Basically these recommendations are very related to how I implement my training and my calories are a good bit higher even weighting a bit less (knowing we are not all equal....).
They all certainly make sense to me.

I spent the better part of 2006 - 2019 doing nothing but strength work and playing some sports; ended up building a good strength base that has stuck around the last 4 years while I've pushed running goals and now the rowing thing. I mention this as I think I've become too complacent on relying on those strength training years and now that I am getting further and further removed from it, I need to make sure I am still strength training 2-3x a week. I do see myself continuing with rowing as my primary aerobic modality but want to still do some running from time to time as there is something about moving through space outside that is enjoyable to me; I just can't do as much as I would like without being beat up, hence rowing.

Most of the strength work I have done over the last 4 years now is a mix of stuff inspired by Pavel Tsatsouline as well as some weight vest work a la "Murph" or Jim Wendler's "Walrus" protocols. The Pavel Tsatsouline stuff tends to be 1-2 movements in a session done for lots of repeatable sets, staying away from failure, and focusing on power. The weight vest work is a bit similar - 2-3 movements, fair amount of sets/rounds, not pushing to failure but focusing on strong and quality reps. I don't expect to gain a ton of strength or even muscle doing this but by keeping consistent, I would expect to hold on to what I have while being in good shape overall.
M, '85; 5'10" (1.78m), 175lbs (79kg)

Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3474
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: Blood work?

Post by Sakly » October 24th, 2023, 11:32 am

Since over 10 years my main part of strength training is based on bodyweight stuff containing lots of reps on lower intensities, but performed in metcon style, often to failure or exhaustion. This is the reason why I can perform so well on the erg even if not being one of the taller guys. I can combine strong pulls for a relatively high amount of time.
Since I started rowing last year, I regularly do 3 gym sessions as before, but now +50-70km of rowing per week. I assumed this would hamper my strength/BW training, but it doesn't. The opposite happened, I feel stronger and have more stamina in these workouts as well. But I eat more than before.
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 358m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:15.9
500m: 1:26.0
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:39.6
6k: 21:03.5
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

jcross485
6k Poster
Posts: 810
Joined: February 27th, 2022, 10:04 am

Re: Blood work?

Post by jcross485 » October 24th, 2023, 2:26 pm

Sakly wrote:
October 24th, 2023, 11:32 am
Since over 10 years my main part of strength training is based on bodyweight stuff containing lots of reps on lower intensities, but performed in metcon style, often to failure or exhaustion. This is the reason why I can perform so well on the erg even if not being one of the taller guys. I can combine strong pulls for a relatively high amount of time.
Since I started rowing last year, I regularly do 3 gym sessions as before, but now +50-70km of rowing per week. I assumed this would hamper my strength/BW training, but it doesn't. The opposite happened, I feel stronger and have more stamina in these workouts as well. But I eat more than before.
This is very good to know and keep in mind.

I do find that my SS sessions the day after more quality on the erg go better than normal; this has been consistent for months now.

It's a bit too early to say with confidence but my SS session today after some strength work yesterday went better than average.

As much as specificity is important, rowing might be one of those endurance sports where power matters much more than say running, cycling, swimming, etc.
M, '85; 5'10" (1.78m), 175lbs (79kg)

Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3474
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: Blood work?

Post by Sakly » October 24th, 2023, 3:15 pm

jcross485 wrote:
October 24th, 2023, 2:26 pm
As much as specificity is important, rowing might be one of those endurance sports where power matters much more than say running, cycling, swimming, etc.
As rowing is a power sport and not necessarily a typical endurance sport, this is so true. You can have tons of cv capabilities, but if you lack power, you will not spin the flywheel.
I know a good example in one of my friends. He is taller than me, but lightweight, I think 67-68kg?! He runs 15k every day with a pace around 5:00min/k on a low heart rate. On the rower he can pull for 500m or 1k at a pace of 2:07-08 at a rate of 28-30 and gets exhausted like hell. He cannot understand how it's possible to pull 2:00 splits at r18 for an hour or longer, or go even below that for let's say a HM. He is completely another body type and differently conditioned.
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 358m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:15.9
500m: 1:26.0
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:39.6
6k: 21:03.5
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

gvcormac
6k Poster
Posts: 671
Joined: April 20th, 2022, 10:27 am

Re: Blood work?

Post by gvcormac » October 24th, 2023, 7:28 pm

Running effort is proportional to body weight. Rowing effort is almost independent of bodyweight. So a lightweight will find running easier than rowing.

I'm not sure what is meant by "rowing is a power sport." If you row 10km, you are likely cardio limited, just like running 10km. Certainly, I am.

If you sprint, you are strength/speed limited. In both running and rowing.

For me, personally, I've notice that as I've aged, my running speed has declined more than my rowing speed (same weight).

Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3474
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: Blood work?

Post by Sakly » October 25th, 2023, 3:08 am

gvcormac wrote:
October 24th, 2023, 7:28 pm
Running effort is proportional to body weight. Rowing effort is almost independent of bodyweight. So a lightweight will find running easier than rowing.
The difference between running and rowing is, that in running speed increase needs linear more effort, but rowing needs cubic more effort. This is the reason why rowing is more of a "power sport" and not directly comparable to classic endurance sports like running.
If your strength is not trained well, you won't get into higher speed regions regardless of your endurance. In running you can create higher speed deltas at the same fitness level.
I'm not sure what is meant by "rowing is a power sport." If you row 10km, you are likely cardio limited, just like running 10km. Certainly, I am.
As your CVS supports your muscles to generate the power needs of your activity, we could define that any limit is based on your CVS (except real short sprints). But again, the difference of power needs at max level efforts (assuming same fitness level for running and rowing) leads to slower speed at rowing, when you have low strength. You would typically compensate with higher rate, but in running strength needs are generally lower and your cadence isn't much different on low or high speeds.
If you sprint, you are strength/speed limited. In both running and rowing.
In this part I fully agree.
For me, personally, I've notice that as I've aged, my running speed has declined more than my rowing speed (same weight).
This is what I wrote above. In running you can create a bigger delta between steady and max speed due to linear power needs. In rowing the speed delta is much smaller and less power will not lead to the same speed loss.
If you calculate your power percentages I am sure your losses are more comparable (assuming the same training level for running and rowing).
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 358m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:15.9
500m: 1:26.0
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:39.6
6k: 21:03.5
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

jcross485
6k Poster
Posts: 810
Joined: February 27th, 2022, 10:04 am

Re: Blood work?

Post by jcross485 » October 25th, 2023, 7:33 am

gvcormac wrote:
October 24th, 2023, 7:28 pm
Running effort is proportional to body weight. Rowing effort is almost independent of bodyweight. So a lightweight will find running easier than rowing.

I'm not sure what is meant by "rowing is a power sport." If you row 10km, you are likely cardio limited, just like running 10km. Certainly, I am.

If you sprint, you are strength/speed limited. In both running and rowing.

For me, personally, I've notice that as I've aged, my running speed has declined more than my rowing speed (same weight).
I think the common perception is that a lot of endurance sports are more speed based and power to weight ratio based whereas rowing is more absolute power based. Without getting too deep into all of it, a simple look at the elites in most endurance sports (ie. events lasting greater than 5:00 in duration) will show some pretty distinct trends with respect to body type.
Sakly wrote:
October 24th, 2023, 3:15 pm
As rowing is a power sport and not necessarily a typical endurance sport, this is so true. You can have tons of cv capabilities, but if you lack power, you will not spin the flywheel.
I know a good example in one of my friends. He is taller than me, but lightweight, I think 67-68kg?! He runs 15k every day with a pace around 5:00min/k on a low heart rate. On the rower he can pull for 500m or 1k at a pace of 2:07-08 at a rate of 28-30 and gets exhausted like hell. He cannot understand how it's possible to pull 2:00 splits at r18 for an hour or longer, or go even below that for let's say a HM. He is completely another body type and differently conditioned.
This has got me thinking quite a bit; I want to put it down in writing just to organize what I'm thinking to see if it makes sense but don't want to clog this thread up with it, will PM you separately.
M, '85; 5'10" (1.78m), 175lbs (79kg)

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