Supplements and anything else to help with a 2k attempt...

[Garnett]

Tl;dr - What supplements will actually help?

After 15 years out of exercise, last September I decided to have a go at getting back into some sort of shape. I'd have never thought it possible until a few months ago, but now I'm seriously contemplating having a go at beating a 2k PB I set all those years ago (6m39). At that time I was training on the water 4 times a week, and I feel my technique isn't so bad.

I've been using the C2 machines a fair bit but just as (the main) part of a broader fitness routine.

Yesterday lunchtime I had a go at rowing 6 peices of 500m with 1 min rests, as I understand the average pace over that workout can give a good indication of a sustainable pace over 2k. I managed a pace that could put me on for 6m35 which for me would be out of this world.

I have been skipping breakfast as part of my fitness and weightloss efforts and I think this was the reason that, toward the end yesterday, my legs felt leaden, and I generally felt like there was "no gas left in the tank". I'll carb-load a bit the night before I try this, and probably have a carby breakfast like porridge on the day itself.

I want to give this attempt my best shot, and create as optimum conditions as I can (because, frankly, I doubt I'll have as serious a go again in my lifetime!).

I currently take protein - well, my lunch is a protein shake - again, more for weight-loss than for performance improvements. I have read a bit about BCAAs and understand it might be worth taking these beforehand - I'm not sure how far in advance, how much, and for how long. I understand the same could be true of Creatine. I took this maybe 20 years ago, when I was an average floundering weightlifter - and seem to recall feeling more "energised" when on it, but I'm notvery keen about what I seem to rememebr was a slightly convoluted "loading" dosage program.

So... can anyone recommend any supplements or any other ideas to help boost my chances of a PB? Thanks a lot for any help.

[bob01]

Hi

I train fasted most days.... not specifically for weight... but I m sure it helps... and perhaps teaches the body to utilize fat and preserve carbs. Just time

Before training I have a cup of black coffee and some BCAA with a spot of good quality butter. Not too sure if it helps (can anyone be sure?)

But I feel I can cope... for all but the longer sessions.... up to 90mins +

When I first started I would go home and eat non stop for the rest of the day... but after a week or two this craving abated.... and to be honest my appetite has now reduced too

[sekitori]

I believe that most people who exercise do it basically to get into better physical condition. Some of us do obsessively--the more you exercise and the faster you go, the better things will be.

The man who founded the principle of aerobic training, Dr. Kenneth Cooper, had this to say about runniing--"if you run more than 15 miles a week, it's for something other than aerobic fitness.”

The same idea applies to taking supplements and doing other things to decrease by a few seconds the time it takes to row 2000 meters. I can understand why doing so natters to world class Olympics rowers where 2K times are the difference between success and failure.

I'm sure some people will say that PBs are a source of personal satisfaction. But for the person whose goal is trying to get into better shape, taking supplememts they normally would never use for the sole purpose of going a little faster makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

[Garnett]

Before training I have a cup of black coffee and some BCAA with a spot of good quality butter.

Thanks. That's helpful.

...absolutely no sense to me at all.

Thanks.

[bob01]

Hi I can see what you are saying... but these are not major unnatural products.... perhaps some take things to enable recovery!!

Whey for example is basically a bi product of cheese making

I take BCAA just in case training fasted leads to muscle wastage. HMB might be similar!!

Alpha linoic acid.... beetroot juice ????

[Dangerscouse]

Beta alanine is worth it. This will help manage the lactic acid build up. Beetroot juice or powdered beetroot juice is good, which I use, as mentioned is good too.

I don't bother with loading for creatine as I have read it doesn't matter that much.

Apart from supplements you need a healthy dose of self belief!! You will have the engine, judging from your background and now it's just sharpening up and getting ready for the pain cave.

[Garnett]

Thanks. I'll look into the beetroot!

After that pb all those years ago, I stumbled out of the boathouse and threw up on the road! I'm definitely harbouring a concern that in my current gym the c2 machines are too far from the front door to make it outside in time!

[lindsayh]

Tl;dr - What supplements will actually help? So... can anyone recommend any supplements or any other ideas to help boost my chances of a PB? Thanks a lot for any help.

you have probably opened a "can of worms" here I suspect. FWIW my view is that there is no good evidence that supplements will make any material difference to your quest for a 2k PB as long as you follow a habit of sensible nutrition to maintain a lean healthy body mass and support the training you are doing. The only way to reach 2k PB goals IMO is to train hard and smart with that goal in sight especially if you have been relatively inactive for 15 years. It might take a year and the best way of constructing it would be to spend about 4 to 6 months on building basic cardio fitness with an emphasis on long and steady pieces and then look at a specific 2k focussed training plan such as the interactive plan or pete plan (there are a lot of threads and discussion here) You could use them over 6 months say 5 sessions a week. As long as you aren't 60y+ yet then it is still very likely that a PB is reachable.

[jackarabit]

Beta alanine will make your lips and ears tingle a bit. In combination with sodium bicarb, it is not easy on the tum! Partial doses need to be spaced out to avoid upset. Classified as a legal performance enhancing substance by USRowing. Buffering of hydrogen ions in muscle tissue is the mechanism thought to contribute to the prolongation of intense effort.

[jackarabit]

::

[Ombrax]

Personally, I think it's a lot simpler to stick to "real," nutritious food. Just not too much. If you want to loose weight, eat less.
(I happen to be a vegetarian, but in this case that's unrelated to your question.)

If you want to row faster exercise more and better. (lots of "plans" out there to help you with that)

[Garnett]

Thanks.

I'm fairly happy with my weightloss so far, and my rowing has definitely been coming on.

I'm really just wondering if there are any supplements or other tips for things I can do the day before and and the morning before having a shot at this.

@Dangerscouse - when you say "I don't bother with loading for creatine as I have read it doesn't matter that much" - Do you mean "don't bother with Creatine at all" or "Don't bother with loading, just have it as needed"?

[lindsayh]

Thanks. I'm really just wondering if there are any supplements or other tips for things I can do the day before and and the morning before having a shot at this.
@Dangerscouse - when you say "I don't bother with loading for creatine as I have read it doesn't matter that much" - Do you mean "don't bother with Creatine at all" or "Don't bother with loading, just have it as needed"?

The last week before a race or PB attempt is important especially an appropriate taper. Last longer hard effort say 4/5 days before then shorter sharper pieces for a couple of days then rest. Get good sleep - 8+hours. There is a good article on taper in the Interactive plan documents.
Good carbs for a couple of days may help. Not too much on the morning of the piece.
Warm up well - search here for Eddie Fletcher - takes about 20 minutes, then wait about 5.
"Supplements" don't help at all unless you are thinking about illegal PEDs. Some like a triple shot Cap a couple of hours prior

[Dangerscouse]

@Dangerscouse - when you say "I don't bother with loading for creatine as I have read it doesn't matter that much" - Do you mean "don't bother with Creatine at all" or "Don't bother with loading, just have it as needed"?

I don't bother with loading. I do rate creatine but I'm not convinced that you need to pile it in to make a difference. It's a bit like the Creatine Ethyl Esther and other variations; they don't work and don't try CEE it's truly horrendous and doesn't do anymore than simple Creatine Monohydrate and is more expensive.

I still have it every day but just a heaped teaspoon and no more.

[Gammmmo]

I still have it every day but just a heaped teaspoon and no more.

That sounds alot. I think most take 3-5g/day of Creatine Mono.

OP - nothing legal will make that much difference IMO. And I've tried most things. All I will add is that creatine I think is useful for lifting (few extra reps and better recovery), caffeine definitely, beetroot etc I don't think so (I believe the better trained you are the less likley is it to work, look into citrulline malate), sodium phosphate - maybe (I once had an erroneous result with that on the bike many years ago). I think there are are other beneficial things for the long term and some of these do work...things that help with sleep, recovery and maybe even cumulative stress.

I think training will obviously make the biggest difference - both mental and physical. Look into 8x500m and 4x1K sessions, and maybe 2Ks done at 95% to build confidence and nip the habit of HD (handle down) in the bud should it rear its head.