Back Pain

mumbles · Post by **mumbles** » March 18th, 2006, 7:00 pm

I seem to get pain in my lower-mid back whenever i row for more than about 30mins or so, would really appreciate some help on this one as it is having a very negative affect on training?

Thanks
Owen

MomofJBN · Post by **MomofJBN** » March 18th, 2006, 8:46 pm

My thoughts:

1) Keep your abdominals tight to support your back.

2) Make sure your hips are not tucked under.

I hope you can work your way past this!

Ducatista · Post by **Ducatista** » March 18th, 2006, 9:41 pm

What's your damper setting/DF?

I had bothersome lower-back pain when I started erging regularly. Someone on the C2 forum suggested I lower my damper setting. I went from 8 to 3, and that was the end of the back pain.

Rockin Roland · Post by **Rockin Roland** » March 19th, 2006, 5:28 am

A common cause of lower back pain on the erg is setting the height of your feet too high. Having your feet too high may cause you to slump over in a weaker position at the catch. Lowering your feet will allow you to sit up more in a stronger catch position and reducing the strain on the lower back.

mumbles · Post by **mumbles** » March 19th, 2006, 10:25 am

I row at damper 4, about drag 120-125, what is more worrying is that i am only 17.

Owen

Hal Morgan · Post by **Hal Morgan** » March 19th, 2006, 1:45 pm

I like to use stretching to releive ache. I also have needed adjustments to my spine. If it hurts bad see a doctor.

gorow9 · Post by **gorow9** » March 19th, 2006, 8:02 pm

I'm 16 and I have the same problem. I also have hip and butt pain as well. For me it's a problem of not being stretched enough, my hamstrings are very tight and I have to work at stretching well before and after I row. I'd also say see your doc and maybe a physical therapist. I went and it turns out I was out of allignment in about five places or so. Stretch, ice... GO TO YOUR DOCTOR. I hate doctor's visits but I went and it's a good thing. I have had about four back x-ray's in a month but hopefully they cought a potential stress fracture before it became a stress fracture.

If it bothers you off the erg then you should definatly get it checked out.
Good luck

gorow9 · Post by **gorow9** » March 19th, 2006, 8:03 pm

also lower damper is important. I don't like to but i now erg at mostly a 1 or two unless i"m in a competetion or a 2k test.

tditmar · Post by **tditmar** » March 29th, 2006, 12:31 pm

I can almost guarantee SLIDES will take care of it...they worked wonders for me. I never had lower back pain until I first bought my erg quite a few years back. I would get a nagging pain in the lower back after erging. I posted my situation and someone responded that the harder you pull on the erg, the more weight you are moving (like an infinitely heavy boat), but with slides you are moving the weight of the erg.

Anyway, I bought slides and never had lower back pain again. In fact, my lower back is now stronger than before. I also feel like the workout on slides is more intense, but many theories seem to abound on that (for example you feel more heat sitting stationary).

gorow9 · Post by **gorow9** » March 29th, 2006, 11:08 pm

I tried slides last week at teh boat club, I only rowed about 500 meters before going on the water but I loved the slides. It does feel a lot better, I think the erg feels like you are in a heavy weight quad and the only one rowing (even on a low damper setting) The slides did feel better, more light and easier.

I'll try the slides.
thansk

Neb154 · Post by **Neb154** » March 30th, 2006, 12:01 am

I would also suggest working on your core streignth (i.e. doing alot of crunches and those sorts of ab workouts). Usually back pain occurs when your back is overcompensating for your weaker/tired abs. I noticed this on the water for awhile and I immediately, upon the advice of some experienced fellow rowers, added a couple extra ab workouts a day. The pain went away fairly quickly thereafter.

Footy · Post by **Footy** » October 20th, 2006, 3:46 am

mumbles wrote:I row at damper 4, about drag 120-125, what is more worrying is that i am only 17.

Owen

This setting on the erg is fine...keep ur chest up at the catch and finish of the stroke to prevent any form of hyper-extension of the back/spine. or in other words "dont slump."
keep ur leg drive even on both feet off the foot stretcher as this will evn out the pressure on both sides of the lower back.
Start doing some back and core exercises as well to strengthen ur back in the time u r not erging.
Planks/Bridges are the best with 2-3 holds @ 1.5 minutes each
Sculling crunches and back archs are also the best ways to improve core stability

igoeja · Post by **igoeja** » November 3rd, 2006, 6:43 am

I've often had issues with a nagging lower back achiness, and only recently has the problem almost completely resolved. Below are what seems to have made for this change...

- Exhale on drive, inhale on recovery: stabilizes midsection ad back
- Swing more explosively and with a straight back; avoid a rounded back and a slowly-opening swing
- Focus some weight training on stabilizing your midsection isometrically via rowing-like exercises (t-bar, seated, etc.)
- Use a higher resistance on the damper, but maintain excellent technique

The last might seem counterintuitive, but I'm fairly large, so a higher resistance, e.g., damper @ 7.5, translates into a faster pace at a lower stroke rate, resulting in better technique.

Alissa · Post by **Alissa** » November 3rd, 2006, 12:09 pm

igoeja wrote:- Exhale on drive, inhale on recovery: stabilizes midsection ad back
- Swing more explosively and with a straight back; avoid a rounded back and a slowly-opening swing
- Focus some weight training on stabilizing your midsection isometrically via rowing-like exercises (t-bar, seated, etc.)
- Use a higher resistance on the damper, but maintain excellent technique

The last might seem counterintuitive, but I'm fairly large, so a higher resistance, e.g., damper @ 7.5, translates into a faster pace at a lower stroke rate, resulting in better technique.

Interesting. In dealing with back issues I agree with some of what you say, but completely disagree with others. I note as follows:

igoeja wrote:- Exhale on drive, inhale on recovery: stabilizes midsection ad back

1. I agree with the part about stabilizing the midsection and back. However I have better luck with the stroke when I'm inhaling on the drive and exhaling on recovery.

I have to wonder whether your reaction to stabilizing w/ exhaling (w/ the concommitment implication of relaxing & not stabilizing during inhalation) comes from muscle memory developed while weightlifting. There is no particular reason that you can't be stabilizing during both inhalation and exhalation. Then when the air-filled lungs (or the deflated lungs) contribute to the stroke can be addressed separately.

My musings aside, I note that exhaling on the drive allows me to compress my stabilized torso against my thighs as I approach the catch. Then with the stabilized, forward leaning torso, as I begin the drive I begin inhaling...which leaves me with the additional support of the filled (or partially-filled lungs as I swing back. It assists me in holding the back-leaning position as I begin the recovery and then swing forward.

igoeja wrote:- Swing more explosively and with a straight back; avoid a rounded back and a slowly-opening swing

2. I agree with the part about keeping a straight back and avoiding a rounded back, but disagree about an "explosive" swing. It should be quick enough that you continue the force applied by the drive, but it shouldn't try to "explode" from the pace of the legs. The legs/glutes are (as I understand it) the engine behind the strongest part of the drive, so if making the swing "explosive" means you are trying to apply a higher lever of force that the legs already have applied, I have to wonder if you're either underutilizing your legs or setting yourself up for injury. But perhaps I've overread your language. If you simply meant don't back down on the pace during the swing back, that is move quickly enough to try to maintain it, then I agree.

I'm guessing your remarks about an explosive swing were not addressing the swing forward during the beginning of the recovery. If they were, then I couldn't disagree more, as this should be a relatively relaxed swing forward--definitely not explosive.

igoeja wrote:- Focus some weight training on stabilizing your midsection isometrically via rowing-like exercises (t-bar, seated, etc.)

3. I don't have an opinion on this one.

igoeja wrote:- Use a higher resistance on the damper, but maintain excellent technique

4. As long as you can maintain excellent technique for as long as you will be rowing, why not?

All in all, a thought provoking post. Thank you.

Alissa

igoeja · Post by **igoeja** » November 3rd, 2006, 1:26 pm

Hi Alissa,

Pardon my inability to use quotes.

Explosive: I'm really focused on strong legs, so overreading is likely accurate, and I know to not pull, etc., just extend the momentum of the stroke. I was referring to making a haystack or inverted-V power curve on the meter. It might be easier to think of the opposite of rounded back and a slowly opening swing.

Exhale/Inhale: I consciously expel air, with contraction of my midsection, and that I find stabilizing. I'm also thinking of a study abstract I had read and posted, from PubMed, supporting that idea of exhaling on the drive, although I might have misinsterpreted the article, posted below.

Intra-abdominal pressure and rowing: the effects of inspiring versus expiring during the drive.

Manning TS, Plowman SA, Drake G, Looney MA, Ball TE.
Department of Kinesiology and Physical Education, Northern Illinois University, DeKalb 60115, USA.

BACKGROUND: The lumbar vertebrae of rowers are subjected to high levels of shear and compression at mid-drive, but intra-abdominal pressure (IAP) may partially neutralize these forces. IAP fluctuates with breathing. This study compared the IAP between inspiring during the drive and expiring during the drive. METHODS: Experimental design: ten volunteers performed one 5x2-minute repetition test while inspiring during the drive and one 5x2-minute repetition test while expiring during the drive on a rowing ergometer. The five work rates were: 100, 125, 150, 175 and 200 watts at 22, 24, 26, 28 and 30 strokes per minute, respectively. Measures: the movement of the body while rowing was analyzed using a position sensor, and IAP was measured using a pressure transducer catheter. RESULTS: A 2x5 repeated measures analysis of variance showed that there was a significant interaction for the dependent variable mid-drive IAP (p<0.05), with the mid-drive IAP increasing at a greater rate while expiring during the drive relative to inspiring during the drive. Across work rate, the mid-drive IAP and minimal IAP were significantly higher while expiring during the drive than inspiring during the drive (p<0.05). Across breathing pattern, the minimal IAP, maximal IAP, average change in IAP and mid-drive IAP increased significantly with work rate (p<0.05). CONCLUSIONS: The data show that expiring during the drive leads to a greater mid-drive IAP than inspiring during the drive.

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