Overuse Injuries
Re: Overuse Injuries
Just to add to MontanaAndy's advice.
I'm 68 and some years ago (5+/-) and have had a couple of bouts with tendonitis - tennis elbow from erging and achilles tendon from jogging. I can trace these back to overuse, not warming up thoroughly, and starting back at an intense level after a few weeks of layoff (not dropping back the intensity and adding to the intensity in a measured way).
My tennis elbow was caused by trying to get additional exercise while erging, doing wrist curls, either up and down on every stroke. It seemed like a good idea at the time (and it still might be if not overdone), but the pain got so intense after a couple of weeks that I couldn't even hold a milk carton with that hand. It took about 6 weeks before it went away. Rest was a very important part of the therapy, as well as massages to stimulate blood flow in the affected area, keeping the area warm using sweaters or sweatshirts, also to aid circulation, and stretching the tendons several times a day. The key is to increase blood flow. Keep in mind that areas like the Achilles tendon have relatively poor circulation and massages and warmth help here.
It seems that you trained mostly at very high intensities, trying to pack as much of a workout as possible into the limited time you have, possibly neglecting a thorough warm up. I used to be able to get away with this type of thing until about my mid 50s, but now I wait for the heart rate to comfortably increase before launching into high intensity work. Like MontanaAndy, I've learned to listen to my body and when I feel some pain coming up, I typically ease back until it goes away, and continue at lower intensity where I'm pain free, increasing it if pain free, and stop if it doesn't go away. It pays to be a chicken at times so that you can come back and fight another day.
I'm 68 and some years ago (5+/-) and have had a couple of bouts with tendonitis - tennis elbow from erging and achilles tendon from jogging. I can trace these back to overuse, not warming up thoroughly, and starting back at an intense level after a few weeks of layoff (not dropping back the intensity and adding to the intensity in a measured way).
My tennis elbow was caused by trying to get additional exercise while erging, doing wrist curls, either up and down on every stroke. It seemed like a good idea at the time (and it still might be if not overdone), but the pain got so intense after a couple of weeks that I couldn't even hold a milk carton with that hand. It took about 6 weeks before it went away. Rest was a very important part of the therapy, as well as massages to stimulate blood flow in the affected area, keeping the area warm using sweaters or sweatshirts, also to aid circulation, and stretching the tendons several times a day. The key is to increase blood flow. Keep in mind that areas like the Achilles tendon have relatively poor circulation and massages and warmth help here.
It seems that you trained mostly at very high intensities, trying to pack as much of a workout as possible into the limited time you have, possibly neglecting a thorough warm up. I used to be able to get away with this type of thing until about my mid 50s, but now I wait for the heart rate to comfortably increase before launching into high intensity work. Like MontanaAndy, I've learned to listen to my body and when I feel some pain coming up, I typically ease back until it goes away, and continue at lower intensity where I'm pain free, increasing it if pain free, and stop if it doesn't go away. It pays to be a chicken at times so that you can come back and fight another day.
Re: Overuse Injuries
An update - I think finally I'm on the road to recovery. And I think my problems are from tendonosis in my achilles tendon - which is from overuse and from the resulting microtears in my tendons. I had tendonosis in my back and my right bicep, but they are both getting better as well so the last place I have to recover from is in my lower right leg. And if all goes well I should be able to get back to most of my activities like skiing and stuff. But no more running or erging. The time its taking is frustrating, though. So I'm really sending this out to other ergo fanatics so they know that tendonopathy is one risk they might possibly deal with. But I think I'll be fine in time, so thank you!
STC - 200#, 6'2'', 45
Former Recreational Rower,
Now Anything But...
STC - 200#, 6'2'', 45
Former Recreational Rower,
Now Anything But...
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- 1k Poster
- Posts: 125
- Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 4:02 pm
Sorry To Hear No More Erging...
Sorry to hear that you have to give up erging and running. I guess you can swim and do other exercises to get your base fitness for skiing which can be tough on the body (knees and hips). Hope that I never have to completely give up erging. I hike in the mountains quite a bit and hopefully will be able to continue to do so for years to come.
I am currently battling a soft tissue injury around my operated hip along with a bit of tennis elbow so I am going to take a week off from the erg to heal. A bit too aggressive with some of my hiking coupled with the extreme cold weather. Rowed 3 x this week and normally that loosens my hip flexors up but that was not the case this time. Only exacerbated the problem. I think the extreme cold (-30F for several days this week) also may have something to do with it. Many are complaining of body aches and pains with this crazy cold weather.
I am currently battling a soft tissue injury around my operated hip along with a bit of tennis elbow so I am going to take a week off from the erg to heal. A bit too aggressive with some of my hiking coupled with the extreme cold weather. Rowed 3 x this week and normally that loosens my hip flexors up but that was not the case this time. Only exacerbated the problem. I think the extreme cold (-30F for several days this week) also may have something to do with it. Many are complaining of body aches and pains with this crazy cold weather.
Re: Overuse Injuries
I got golfers elbow which is similar to tennis elbow but a different tendon gets inflamed from rubbing on the bone. I was putting wrist action into the end of the stroke to get more speed.
I laid off for a few months to let it heal and it did. Now I row with flat relaxed wrists and the problem has not reoccured.
I laid off for a few months to let it heal and it did. Now I row with flat relaxed wrists and the problem has not reoccured.
Re: Overuse Injuries
See Rowing Faster pg 32-33 on overuse injuriesSTC wrote:My body is riddled with tendonosis and tendinitis. Does anybody out there have experience with this?
http://books.google.com/books?id=-wmLeD ... on&f=false
Re: Overuse Injuries
I'm late to this debate, but it sounds like you're overly demonizing the erg because of your pattern of generally over-doing things. Also, rowing isn't particularly bicep-intensive, so...
The erg is a useful fitness tool. Can we agree on this? Notwithstanding the fact that everything can be over-used.
The erg is a useful fitness tool. Can we agree on this? Notwithstanding the fact that everything can be over-used.
Doug
64 yrs/176 cm/74⅞ kg/8400 km
Lifetime:
64 yrs/176 cm/74⅞ kg/8400 km
Lifetime:
Re: Overuse Injuries
I think you're both right. Erging is most certainly a "pushing exercise" when done correctly because it should be primarily leg driven. On the other hand, even though the back and arms are secondary in the erging motion, the pulling muscles are the only muscles being used so supplementing with pushing movements is a good idea. IMHO all supplemental exercises should be multi-joint exercises such as deads, squats, power cleans, dips, pullups, pushups, sprints, etc. These are the exercises that increase overall body power which is what you want and need to be better on the erg.luckylindy wrote:I guess it depends on the person and rowing style to a certain extent.Citroen wrote:Eh?luckylindy wrote:For example, since rowing is basically a pulling exercise ...
Rowing is basically a pushing exercise for me. I use my nice big strong quads to push me (and the seat) backwards while holding the handle connected to the chain. The pulling in at the end of the stroke, bit is entirely secondary.
Usually, the total distance the handle is moved by the legs (assuming you start with your shins vertical) is well under 50% of the total distance the handle moves. Also, the peak force (based on force curve) for many rowers happens either after the legs are fully extended or right before ... i.e. when you're transitioning from the beginning of the drive to later in it. So while the legs may provide the highest instantaneous force, the arms and back/hamstrings combined provide more total power.
I think I saw someone else talking about this on another thread recently, but here was a good article I read on the biomechanics (this is more for others than you Dougie): http://www.biorow.com/RBN_en_2006_files ... News05.pdf .
My perspective (right or wrong) is that it's a net-pulling exercise since the quad/hamstring work will balance itself out, leaving the upper body pulling unbalanced (which is why I do chest/tri/shoulder work to prevent injury).
Re: Overuse Injuries
A final update - at last getting better. Had 2 cortisone shots to help with a pinched nerve, now just have to be patient while my tendonopathy and arthritis slowly heal themselves. I did detect a little defensiveness when I said that excessive use of the erg had caused all my health troubles. Well, I'm sorry, but it was the erg. Along with running. For the future it will be the stationary bike for me, swimming and walking when I can do it again. But rowing definitely did me in. Not rowing on the water, but rowing on a machine. I came across a great deal of info to do with the erg on the net about pinched nerves, tendonopathy, and other similar things. And I thought nothing but good could come from using the erg. Now I know better. Thanks for listening to my wanking!!!
Sean Coughlin
200#, 46,
Sean Coughlin
200#, 46,
Re: Overuse Injuries
Could you share that information? I can only find very few conclusive research articles about rowing injuries.STC wrote:A final update - at last getting better. Had 2 cortisone shots to help with a pinched nerve, now just have to be patient while my tendonopathy and arthritis slowly heal themselves. I did detect a little defensiveness when I said that excessive use of the erg had caused all my health troubles. Well, I'm sorry, but it was the erg. Along with running. For the future it will be the stationary bike for me, swimming and walking when I can do it again. But rowing definitely did me in. Not rowing on the water, but rowing on a machine. I came across a great deal of info to do with the erg on the net about pinched nerves, tendonopathy, and other similar things. And I thought nothing but good could come from using the erg. Now I know better. Thanks for listening to my wanking!!!
Sean Coughlin
200#, 46,
Re: Overuse Injuries
As you can imagine I've been doing much research over the past six months. But I have no definite articles or sites I can point you toward. Just came up with similar info on my many searches about pinched nerves, tendonopathy, arthritis, and compressed tissue injuries. Sorry. Hope this helped!
Re: Overuse Injuries
Yes it helped. It means there is nothing in support for the statement that rowing on the machine is bad.STC wrote:As you can imagine I've been doing much research over the past six months. But I have no definite articles or sites I can point you toward. Just came up with similar info on my many searches about pinched nerves, tendonopathy, arthritis, and compressed tissue injuries. Sorry. Hope this helped!
Re: Overuse Injuries
No, I guess there isn't. Oh, well. Now I'm done with this. Good luck!!!Tinus wrote:Yes it helped. It means there is nothing in support for the statement that rowing on the machine is bad.
Re: Overuse Injuries
Of course, a small warning note must be attached. Overuse of the rowing machine is not a good idea. But, that is true for any other type of exercise as well and not specific to the rowing machine.STC wrote:No, I guess there isn't. Oh, well. Now I'm done with this. Good luck!!!Tinus wrote:Yes it helped. It means there is nothing in support for the statement that rowing on the machine is bad.
Re: Overuse Injuries
My Doctor says I have an overuse injury. At the beginning of this chain I asked if anybody else had experience with this. Well, now I do. So for me the erg was very damaging and bad. But that's just for me. For me it was absolutely terrible. I did it way too much and didn't do anything else. From my head injury 14 years ago I may still have lingering effects. But my excessive erging and my running are what I think did this to me. For information on overuse injuries you can go to sportsmed.com or any one of a thousand other sites. They'll all tell you the same thing. And overuse injury is a soft tissue injury that comes when your body can no longer keep up with the stresses put on it. So I've answered my own question. I know now what's going on with me, and it was primarily from the erg. And again, that's just my experience. I used the erg too much and I paid a price for doing so. That doesn't mean I think it's bad exercise tool by any means. It just means I should have used it more moderately. In the past I've had wonderful benefits from erging. I really have to start listening to my body. If I had earlier, I wouldn't be in the position I am right now. But thankfully I'm getting much better, and soon will be well again. Thank you!
Re: Overuse Injuries
Another update in early October - I think I'm finally on the road to recovery, and the stationary bike is getting me there. My doctor said my overuse injury was from repetitive stress on the rowing machine, putting strain on unequally developed muscles from my old ski accident. So I'm just getting this out there so people know excessive use of the concept 2 ergometer is not a good thing. It took a long time for me to listen to my doctor, because I was convinced my rowing on the erg was only a good thing and no bad could come from it. How wrong I was. I'm sure most of you reading this are more aware than I was about the danger of overdoing it and only doing one type of exercise, but I just want to affirm what you already know. Thank you!