Concept2 Forum

Hi all,

I finally managed to buy a 2nd hand SkiErg, now sitting right next to a RowErg in my garage.

For the time being, I use the SkiErg only as warm-up & cool-down in 3 out of 4 of my weekly rowing sessions, typically 10min warm-up and 10min cool-down. Only other workouts I've tried on the SikErg are a 20min steady and a 5x (2min fast, 1min slow), where "fast" and "slow" are relative to my ridiculous level on the SkiErg.

What I can say after 1 month:

1. There's no chain, maintenance is even lower than the (already very low) RowErg. Love no-maintenance machines.
2. Very pleased by how complementary it is with respect to the RowErg: upper body + abs + calves. After only 1 month (56Km at a snail avg pace of 2:32/500m) I now have abs muscles I didn't have before. To the point it feels weird/unusual when I'm sitting in from of my PC.
3. Overall, I think it's kind of a better machine for general public: mainly, less problems than a RowErg (sitting & back pain), less legs-oriented.
4. I'm pretty lost on the proper technique. There're videos from people that seem to be knowledgeable (i.e. not your random YT fitness influencer / crossfit guru) but the variance in what they label as "proper technique" is huge. How much do you hinge/lean forward, where do your hands end at the end of the drive (at your pockets/hips ? just pull straight vertically, don't curl back ?) ... maybe it depends on what you use it for (e.g. just as a fitness machine or as a functional complement to actual skiing). Don't know.
5. I cannot reach the same level of power/pace I can do on the rower. Not by a mile (or two). Don't know if it's me (as in my technique sucks), or me (as in I'm all legs and that's OK on the RowErg but a tragedy on the SkiErg) or just me (as in I need more time to get better on the SkiErg).
6. Random questions:
   1. Gloves or not ?
   2. No shoes = bad ? Or it doesn't matter ?

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

October 2nd, 2023, 8:45 am

Very pleased by how complementary it is with respect to the RowErg: upper body + abs + calves. After only 1 month (56Km at a snail avg pace of 2:32/500m) I now have abs muscles I didn't have before. To the point it feels weird/unusual when I'm sitting in from of my PC.

Interesting. Still considering this machine as well, for the abs as they gone soft over the past decades. Where to find the space...

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

October 2nd, 2023, 8:45 am

Hi all,

I finally managed to buy a 2nd hand SkiErg, now sitting right next to a RowErg in my garage.

For the time being, I use the SkiErg only as warm-up & cool-down in 3 out of 4 of my weekly rowing sessions, typically 10min warm-up and 10min cool-down. Only other workouts I've tried on the SikErg are a 20min steady and a 5x (2min fast, 1min slow), where "fast" and "slow" are relative to my ridiculous level on the SkiErg.

What I can say after 1 month:

1. There's no chain, maintenance is even lower than the (already very low) RowErg. Love no-maintenance machines.
2. Very pleased by how complementary it is with respect to the RowErg: upper body + abs + calves. After only 1 month (56Km at a snail avg pace of 2:32/500m) I now have abs muscles I didn't have before. To the point it feels weird/unusual when I'm sitting in from of my PC.
3. Overall, I think it's kind of a better machine for general public: mainly, less problems than a RowErg (sitting & back pain), less legs-oriented.
4. I'm pretty lost on the proper technique. There're videos from people that seem to be knowledgeable (i.e. not your random YT fitness influencer / crossfit guru) but the variance in what they label as "proper technique" is huge. How much do you hinge/lean forward, where do your hands end at the end of the drive (at your pockets/hips ? just pull straight vertically, don't curl back ?) ... maybe it depends on what you use it for (e.g. just as a fitness machine or as a functional complement to actual skiing). Don't know.
5. I cannot reach the same level of power/pace I can do on the rower. Not by a mile (or two). Don't know if it's me (as in my technique sucks), or me (as in I'm all legs and that's OK on the RowErg but a tragedy on the SkiErg) or just me (as in I need more time to get better on the SkiErg).
6. Random questions:
   1. Gloves or not ?
   2. No shoes = bad ? Or it doesn't matter ?

1) I blister on hard or long pieces. Have to tape some areas and wear gloves as a consequence. The handle can also get slippery with sweat.

2) Don't think it matters much, I like using barefoot style shoes on the SkiErg and Rowerg

Your pace will increase gradually with consistent practice... use the force curve screen to produce smooth mountains.

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

October 2nd, 2023, 12:31 pm

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

October 2nd, 2023, 8:45 am

Very pleased by how complementary it is with respect to the RowErg: upper body + abs + calves. After only 1 month (56Km at a snail avg pace of 2:32/500m) I now have abs muscles I didn't have before. To the point it feels weird/unusual when I'm sitting in from of my PC.

Interesting. Still considering this machine as well, for the abs as they gone soft over the past decades. Where to find the space...

If going direct to wall without the stand it takes up minimal room.

Spinal wrote: ↑

October 2nd, 2023, 1:19 pm

Your pace will increase gradually with consistent practice... use the force curve screen to produce smooth mountains.

Yeah but even this, I've seen different opinions (at any rate, more variance than for a rower): some saying a nice round hill is good, others saying it should climb ultra fast and then taper off.

I have found the tutorials (particularly the CrossFit ones, but also the C2 ones) to be useless.

In the year I've owned by SkiErg, I've learned to do the following:

1. Concentrate on hinge motion for power.
2. Keep elbows locked for the majority of the stroke -- from the top to nearly the bottom.
3. Straighten arms just at bottom of stoke.
4. Do NOT bend your knees. Lifting your hips up and down is entirely wasted energy.
5. Do NOT lift your heels. Lifting your legs and hips is entirely wasted energy.

If I follow these rules, I'm about 10-15 seconds pace slower than rowing.

I find the SkiErg complements my RowErg and Bike Erg. For me, it is not as comfortable as the other two, because it
is weight bearing and when I'm lazy I can just pile onto one of the others. No minimum effort required. But I do like
it.

gvcormac wrote: ↑

October 2nd, 2023, 9:07 pm

4. Do NOT bend your knees. Lifting your hips up and down is entirely wasted energy.
5. Do NOT lift your heels. Lifting your legs and hips is entirely wasted energy.

The two above sound strange to me. They are literally the only points on which every video I've seen do agree (as in "do bend your knees, do lift your heels") Hinging without bending the knees / moving the hips down ? How ?

My understanding is that the energy is not wasted if you time your movement right (i.e. if when your heels fall and your knees bend, these movements do some pulling on the handles). On the contrary, doing so relieves your arms from doing all the pulling. Kind of sharing the work with bigger muscles.

I can actually generate more force (peak and average) if I focus on really really "suspending my body" to the handles and then "let it fall".

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2023, 3:31 am

gvcormac wrote: ↑

October 2nd, 2023, 9:07 pm

4. Do NOT bend your knees. Lifting your hips up and down is entirely wasted energy.
5. Do NOT lift your heels. Lifting your legs and hips is entirely wasted energy.

The two above sound strange to me. They are literally the only points on which every video I've seen do agree (as in "do bend your knees, do lift your heels") Hinging without bending the knees / moving the hips down ? How ?

My understanding is that the energy is not wasted if you time your movement right (i.e. if when your heels fall and your knees bend, these movements do some pulling on the handles). On the contrary, doing so relieves your arms from doing all the pulling. Kind of sharing the work with bigger muscles.

I can actually generate more force (peak and average) if I focus on really really "suspending my body" to the handles and then "let it fall".

If you do it right with good timing and rock solid arm position I agree. I found the same for me, when using the skierg first times.
If your arms collapse as they are the weak link of the chain, then energy is wasted. Same as shooting the slide for the rower, when upper body not stable or early breaking arms which cannot properly transfer the power.

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2023, 3:31 am

gvcormac wrote: ↑

October 2nd, 2023, 9:07 pm

4. Do NOT bend your knees. Lifting your hips up and down is entirely wasted energy.
5. Do NOT lift your heels. Lifting your legs and hips is entirely wasted energy.

The two above sound strange to me. They are literally the only points on which every video I've seen do agree (as in "do bend your knees, do lift your heels") Hinging without bending the knees / moving the hips down ? How ?

My understanding is that the energy is not wasted if you time your movement right (i.e. if when your heels fall and your knees bend, these movements do some pulling on the handles). On the contrary, doing so relieves your arms from doing all the pulling. Kind of sharing the work with bigger muscles.

I can actually generate more force (peak and average) if I focus on really really "suspending my body" to the handles and then "let it fall".

Bend at the waist, not the knees. Bending at the knees lowers your thighs and hips, that you then need to lift up again. That's wasted energy. If you are sprinting a la Crossfit, you may not care. But if you are trying to maintain an aerobic pace it is very energy consuming. Same with liftin your heels. You are lifting much of your body weight and getting little for it.

If you bend at the waist, you are actually using your abs and shoulders to push down on the handles with your elbows rigid. Then at the end a little bit of arm straightening. You're not pulling like a rope climb. Sure, you waste some energy raising your chest and shoulders, but a certain amount of that energy (much more than legs and hip raising) is delivered to the pulls on the stroke.

I agree that every video shows knee bends from moderate to deep. Many (but not all) show the heel raises as well. I tried all of the above. But what I said is what works for me.

I can't disagree on what works for you, of course, but I kind of disagree on everything else (except bending at the waist, that's a given).

These are not exactly crossfitters ("Longdistance cross country ski team from Sweden"):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAe9O2AM2YM[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW3ZXmLbzx8[/youtube]

I do see both heel lifting and knee bending (granted, they are not squatting).

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2023, 8:05 am

I can't disagree on what works for you, of course, but I kind of disagree on everything else (except bending at the waist, that's a given).

These are not exactly crossfitters ("Longdistance cross country ski team from Sweden"):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAe9O2AM2YM[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW3ZXmLbzx8[/youtube]

I do see both heel lifting and knee bending (granted, they are not squatting).

They are sprinting in this video. Presumably, they are also training for on-snow skiing which necessarily involves knee bending. It may be that they have enough rotation that their centre of gravity doesn't go up and down much. I'll have to look more carefully.

There's also another one from the same channel showing 3 slightly different techniques. Here: [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO08IcnRE0k[/youtube] (too bad it's in swedish only )

gvcormac wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2023, 8:37 am

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2023, 8:05 am

I can't disagree on what works for you, of course, but I kind of disagree on everything else (except bending at the waist, that's a given).

These are not exactly crossfitters ("Longdistance cross country ski team from Sweden"):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAe9O2AM2YM[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW3ZXmLbzx8[/youtube]

I do see both heel lifting and knee bending (granted, they are not squatting).

They are sprinting in this video. Presumably, they are also training for on-snow skiing which necessarily involves knee bending. It may be that they have enough rotation that their centre of gravity doesn't go up and down much. I'll have to look more carefully.

Marathon record set using same techniques

https://youtu.be/tTEQNv6n3j8?feature=shared

Spinal wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2023, 11:10 am

gvcormac wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2023, 8:37 am

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2023, 8:05 am

I can't disagree on what works for you, of course, but I kind of disagree on everything else (except bending at the waist, that's a given).

These are not exactly crossfitters ("Longdistance cross country ski team from Sweden"):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAe9O2AM2YM[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW3ZXmLbzx8[/youtube]

I do see both heel lifting and knee bending (granted, they are not squatting).

They are sprinting in this video. Presumably, they are also training for on-snow skiing which necessarily involves knee bending. It may be that they have enough rotation that their centre of gravity doesn't go up and down much. I'll have to look more carefully.

Marathon record set using same techniques

https://youtu.be/tTEQNv6n3j8?feature=shared

Yes, I would be eager to figure out how they make this motion efficient. I have not been able to do it, or to figure it out.

Spinal wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2023, 11:10 am

Marathon record set using same techniques

https://youtu.be/tTEQNv6n3j8?feature=shared

Seen that. Another bookmark in the folder "RowErg&Skierg / Humbling"

Side question on the video: at around 3'30" he has some sort of hose taped to the front of his tshirt. Is it the hose of a camelback ? It seems to be a waist one (see at 5'00").