SkiErg Calorimetry

[flatbread]

for what its worth, at the bottom of the stroke on the erg my back angle is about 25 degrees (level to the ground would be 0), I have a slight elbow extension, and my hands are just above my knees, not below (I'm 1m 84 but my arm span is 2m), just as I was when I was young.

[hjs]

find someone who double poles so deeply that the back gets horizontal on every stroke. a few strokes, with coasting, yes.

and those norwegian guys have their hands at or slightly above the knees most of the time while double poling, not below.

Thats what I said yes, sprinters dip less, and rate high and shorter. Longer distance dips longer and strides longer.


But decided to let it go, no point this strange discussion. Will stay out if your threads and comments. Only when you lead people a wrong way, imo, I will tell them.

Enjoy your training and good luck.

[flatbread]

the original post was about technique and whether or not calorimetry was established with subject in a chamber, using a "medium" range of motion -- like the first one in this video. Although he says hands below the knees in demonstration, the stroke he demonstrates with the first slow motion has the hands a little higher than that -- slow it down and freeze it when he's at full extension. then you'll see the short stroke/high frequency for short intervals, and the long stroke for at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wro8NmpjV1Y

that "medium" range of motion also recommended here -- a coach of junior development skiiers. is it the only stroke you'd use? no. good bread-and-butter choice for daily erging? sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVvoLcCyfL8&t=240s

granted, she's doing technique work more than conditioning, here.

do you have to use a variety of hip/back angles and arm drives? yes. in one video you posted, you have two skiiers on the flat -- lower turnover, using momentum, the back is maybe 25 degrees from the ground and the hands are slightly above, maybe just at, the knees -- not too much muscle fatigue due to the shorter range of motion, and something that you can just chug along with for a good distance. the second shot was going up a drag -- so yes, drive a longer stroke and close the back/hip angle -- but that's not a stroke you can sustain for a long time. then you had a string cresting a hill in a race, another instance of needed a few power pushes with the longer range of motion to accelerate over the top and then tuck in (which I what I meant by a "short sprint" -- an injection of pace or powering over a crest, but not a 1500m all-out effort). of course, if that video had a 1500m full-gas sprint, the hip angle would be less and the arm drive would be short with a high turnover.

I never contended that there was "one" way to double pole that you would use all the damn time -- and the above video shows using the erg to train the upper body for three different strokes, all of which would have their purpose. I'm going to do most of mine with the first technique shown -- mainly because it's how I learned to double pole (I grew up where it was very flat, and we actually did a lot of kick and slide...this was late 70s/early 80s), and the very long range of motion in the last one is fine if you have a lot of muscle mass and can handle the muscle fatigue of that technique. and of course, the short explosive pulls for higher intensity efforts.

this shitstorm started when I called your technique more "crossfit" -- which is a term others have used to describe it on this board, without drama, so that's why I used it. we'll simply call it "long drive" perhaps.

[flatbread]

and lest I lead someone the wrong way, watch a lap or two of the '15 50k worlds, for instance

hip/back angle rarely closes deeply

hands at or slightly above the knees for the vast majority of double-poling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kHZTEVboBw