Double pole technique

[DghSpanishWelsh]

How many of us try to use proper ski technique, and how many of us use the skierg like crossfitters?

Saw this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY8KUqrvEEs&t=484s - with comments from Marcialonga winner about different double-poling techniques, comparing a knee-bind and a stiffer-leg, more hip-orientated technique.

I tend to use a fairly minimal leg bend, although I probably bend forward more than I would on rollerskis, but am trying to remedy that.

[Dpoleit89]

Hey!

I use a skier technique and the hip variant because I train for long distance races.
If I remember correctly, runar uses more the hip variant because of a past injury and he can’t bend a knee much (that’s why he nearly doesn’t run).

Long workout=hip variant, low s/m (45-50)
Fast workout=knee variant, high s/m (50+)

At least for me.

[Sakly]

Hey!

I use a skier technique and the hip variant because I train for long distance races.
If I remember correctly, runar uses more the hip variant because of a past injury and he can’t bend a knee much (that’s why he nearly doesn’t run).

Long workout=hip variant, low s/m (45-50)
Fast workout=knee variant, high s/m (50+)

At least for me.

I really need to overthink my skierg technique and rate. In next gym warmups I will try to rate up (massively!) and change stroke according to the video. At least I will try to do so.

[Dpoleit89]

Hey!

I use a skier technique and the hip variant because I train for long distance races.
If I remember correctly, runar uses more the hip variant because of a past injury and he can’t bend a knee much (that’s why he nearly doesn’t run).

Long workout=hip variant, low s/m (45-50)
Fast workout=knee variant, high s/m (50+)

At least for me.

I really need to overthink my skierg technique and rate. In next gym warmups I will try to rate up (massively!) and change stroke according to the video. At least I will try to do so.

Everyone is different.
Coming to skierg from xc ski/rollerski, it is a lot easier and mostly on autopilot. No need to change technique for another one, unless you are competing in xc skiing or doing something horrible like butterfly stroke that I’ve seen in some CF videos.

[Sakly]

Hey!

I use a skier technique and the hip variant because I train for long distance races.
If I remember correctly, runar uses more the hip variant because of a past injury and he can’t bend a knee much (that’s why he nearly doesn’t run).

Long workout=hip variant, low s/m (45-50)
Fast workout=knee variant, high s/m (50+)

At least for me.

I really need to overthink my skierg technique and rate. In next gym warmups I will try to rate up (massively!) and change stroke according to the video. At least I will try to do so.

Everyone is different.
Coming to skierg from xc ski/rollerski, it is a lot easier and mostly on autopilot. No need to change technique for another one, unless you are competing in xc skiing or doing something horrible like butterfly stroke that I’ve seen in some CF videos.

I constantly try to better my technique (and therefore output) on the rower, so do I for the skierg. As I use the skierg only at the gym, it is harder to optimize, as I don't use it as frequent as my rowErg and do not so much meters on it. But I run battles against myself (and at least my training partner ) and this motivates me to improve.
Currently I use a rate around 30-34 for my 15min warmup sessions, at ca. 1:52-56 average. On intervals I get down to ~1:42 for 500s and a rate of ~43.
So I do strong heavy strokes compared to a bit lighter ones on higher rate. I could imagine energy loss is a bit lower on the higher rate strokes, as upper body movement is less and only the most efficient stroke part is used.

This butterfly strokes are really funny. Saw that several times in the gym, when some Hyrox athletes were training at the skierg.
No, I am not doing that

[Dpoleit89]

I really need to overthink my skierg technique and rate. In next gym warmups I will try to rate up (massively!) and change stroke according to the video. At least I will try to do so.

Everyone is different.
Coming to skierg from xc ski/rollerski, it is a lot easier and mostly on autopilot. No need to change technique for another one, unless you are competing in xc skiing or doing something horrible like butterfly stroke that I’ve seen in some CF videos.

I constantly try to better my technique (and therefore output) on the rower, so do I for the skierg. As I use the skierg only at the gym, it is harder to optimize, as I don't use it as frequent as my rowErg and do not so much meters on it. But I run battles against myself (and at least my training partner ) and this motivates me to improve.
Currently I use a rate around 30-34 for my 15min warmup sessions, at ca. 1:52-56 average. On intervals I get down to ~1:42 for 500s and a rate of ~43.
So I do strong heavy strokes compared to a bit lighter ones on higher rate. I could imagine energy loss is a bit lower on the higher rate strokes, as upper body movement is less and only the most efficient stroke part is used.

This butterfly strokes are really funny. Saw that several times in the gym, when some Hyrox athletes were training at the skierg.
No, I am not doing that

Elbow 90 degrees when starting the pull, little flexion on knees, a bit of butt out and stop the pull at the thighs (the elbow should be at around 100 degrees, so not a tricep extension).

I use no more than 7 on the damper (it is like slush snow).

[Sakly]

Elbow 90 degrees when starting the pull, little flexion on knees, a bit of butt out and stop the pull at the thighs (the elbow should be at around 100 degrees, so not a tricep extension).

I use no more than 7 on the damper (it is like slush snow).

Elbow is like described, but I think I utilize more knee bend and probably hip hinge than needed on higher rates.
Damper typically at ~5, DF ~85.
I will play around a little and see if it suits me better

[Sakly]

Elbow 90 degrees when starting the pull, little flexion on knees, a bit of butt out and stop the pull at the thighs (the elbow should be at around 100 degrees, so not a tricep extension).

Did the test today at the gym, 15min skierg warmup:

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
15:00.0	3,948m	1:53.9	236	1113	40
3:00.0	783m	1:54.9	230	1093	41
6:00.0	784m	1:54.7	231	1096	40
9:00.0	788m	1:54.2	235	1108	41
12:00.0	792m	1:53.6	239	1120	41
15:00.0	802m	1:52.2	248	1152	41

Compared to typical 15min with my old style:

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
15:00.0	3,846m	1:57.0	219	1052	32
3:00.0	761m	1:58.2	212	1028	32
6:00.0	762m	1:58.1	212	1031	32
9:00.0	767m	1:57.3	217	1045	32
12:00.0	772m	1:56.5	221	1060	32
15:00.0	784m	1:54.7	231	1096	32

As you can see pace was a good bit faster, but I felt less muscular fatigue, especially in my thighs and back. No intention for a faster pace, I settled at this pace going with a fluent rhythm.
Only use my watch during gym sessions, so no HR data to compare (watch isn't reliable anyway).
Breathing was a bit different, need to get used to it.
After the warmup I connected with ergdata and configured it to show stroke length. My old style has an average around 1.12m, the shorter ones are around 0.90m.
Both sessions were at DF 83.
Like that style, will go for some more sessions to get a better feel for it and see how it goes

[Dpoleit89]

Elbow 90 degrees when starting the pull, little flexion on knees, a bit of butt out and stop the pull at the thighs (the elbow should be at around 100 degrees, so not a tricep extension).

Did the test today at the gym, 15min skierg warmup:

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
15:00.0	3,948m	1:53.9	236	1113	40
3:00.0	783m	1:54.9	230	1093	41
6:00.0	784m	1:54.7	231	1096	40
9:00.0	788m	1:54.2	235	1108	41
12:00.0	792m	1:53.6	239	1120	41
15:00.0	802m	1:52.2	248	1152	41

Compared to typical 15min with my old style:

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
15:00.0	3,846m	1:57.0	219	1052	32
3:00.0	761m	1:58.2	212	1028	32
6:00.0	762m	1:58.1	212	1031	32
9:00.0	767m	1:57.3	217	1045	32
12:00.0	772m	1:56.5	221	1060	32
15:00.0	784m	1:54.7	231	1096	32

As you can see pace was a good bit faster, but I felt less muscular fatigue, especially in my thighs and back. No intention for a faster pace, I settled at this pace going with a fluent rhythm.
Only use my watch during gym sessions, so no HR data to compare (watch isn't reliable anyway).
Breathing was a bit different, need to get used to it.
After the warmup I connected with ergdata and configured it to show stroke length. My old style has an average around 1.12m, the shorter ones are around 0.90m.
Both sessions were at DF 83.
Like that style, will go for some more sessions to get a better feel for it and see how it goes

Nice increase, maybe try to slow down pace.
My warm up pace is 2:05.

[Sakly]

Elbow 90 degrees when starting the pull, little flexion on knees, a bit of butt out and stop the pull at the thighs (the elbow should be at around 100 degrees, so not a tricep extension).

Did the test today at the gym, 15min skierg warmup:

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
15:00.0	3,948m	1:53.9	236	1113	40
3:00.0	783m	1:54.9	230	1093	41
6:00.0	784m	1:54.7	231	1096	40
9:00.0	788m	1:54.2	235	1108	41
12:00.0	792m	1:53.6	239	1120	41
15:00.0	802m	1:52.2	248	1152	41

Compared to typical 15min with my old style:

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
15:00.0	3,846m	1:57.0	219	1052	32
3:00.0	761m	1:58.2	212	1028	32
6:00.0	762m	1:58.1	212	1031	32
9:00.0	767m	1:57.3	217	1045	32
12:00.0	772m	1:56.5	221	1060	32
15:00.0	784m	1:54.7	231	1096	32

As you can see pace was a good bit faster, but I felt less muscular fatigue, especially in my thighs and back. No intention for a faster pace, I settled at this pace going with a fluent rhythm.
Only use my watch during gym sessions, so no HR data to compare (watch isn't reliable anyway).
Breathing was a bit different, need to get used to it.
After the warmup I connected with ergdata and configured it to show stroke length. My old style has an average around 1.12m, the shorter ones are around 0.90m.
Both sessions were at DF 83.
Like that style, will go for some more sessions to get a better feel for it and see how it goes

Nice increase, maybe try to slow down pace.
My warm up pace is 2:05.

For the gym session I want my body to really get going, heat up and get into performance state. I think 2:05 wouldn't drive me hard enough to get to that state. I feel entering the right state and mood by passing by the 10-12min mark at that pace, that's right the spot where I start sweating. Not sure if this would happen with 2:05 at all.
For a 60min steady state like on the rower I would definitely reduce the pace by a good margin and probably land at your suggested pace or even a bit slower.

[DghSpanishWelsh]

You guys much faster than me When I ski a steady 5k, I average around 2:21/500m, if I do a 4x4 intervals the fast ones are about 2:10.

Technique probably not perfect but try to keep it close to what I'd do on rollerskis

[Sakly]

You guys much faster than me When I ski a steady 5k, I average around 2:21/500m, if I do a 4x4 intervals the fast ones are about 2:10.

Technique probably not perfect but try to keep it close to what I'd do on rollerskis

I only did ~360km on the skierg since I started to incorporate it, so I'm surely not the one with the best technique
Never did a steady on skierg (HR based UT2 like on the rower), so I don't know where my pace would land for this. I assume at least 5s slower than on the rower, so around 2:07?!
Never did a 4x4, but several times a 4x1k 3:30r, which is a bit shorter, but similar. Averaged 1:46 for these.
Recently I adopted my technique a bit based on a posted video in this thread and a short discussion with Dpoleit89. I got a bit faster at the same perceived effort during my warmup. In the next weeks I will have a go for a 2k and see how it goes

[DghSpanishWelsh]

The 4x4 is a great workout - at least, it is for me. I do judo (only recreational) and notice that, in randori (sparring), am lasting the 3 or 4 mins much better after just a few weeks of serious interval work.

[Sakly]

Definitely agree, intervals giving most bang for the buck.
Yesterdays 8x250m were feeling really horrible - as it is intended to

[Dpoleit89]

You guys much faster than me When I ski a steady 5k, I average around 2:21/500m, if I do a 4x4 intervals the fast ones are about 2:10.

Technique probably not perfect but try to keep it close to what I'd do on rollerskis

I think you just need endurance on the skierg, that is heavier than rollerskiing.
When I tried the 1st time at Vasaloppet Expo in Sweden in March, I sustained 1:50 only for 100m before dying