Variety on the SkiErg

[mrpiii]

I'd like to hear what people do to make the SkiErg more interesting. I'm very impressed with the design and quality of the SkiErg. I'm trying everything I can to make using the SkiErg less mind numbing. I'm sorry but erging for 10K meters is not my idea of fun and frankly I worry about overuse injury for such a (numbingly) repetitive motion. I am gradually migrating to intervals such as 5x1500m.

I've just started balancing on one leg for 250m or 500m and then switching to the another -- it is very revealing about balance. It isn't so much a function of staying balanced as the power I'm able to generate on one leg versus the other, so perhaps it is a stability issue -- you can't use the SkiErg handle to cheat on your balance like you can with a ski pole. I've alway had trouble skate skiing, or classic skiing for that matter, with getting as well balanced on my left as my right. My glide on my right leg is easily 20% longer. I'm thinking one legged intervals may help me. We'll see.

I'd love to hear what others do to make their time on the Erg more challenging, interesting and hopefully useful for the real world of Nordic Skiing.

Marshall,

[floatingbones]

I'd like to hear what people do to make the SkiErg more interesting. I'm very impressed with the design and quality of the SkiErg. I'm trying everything I can to make using the SkiErg less mind numbing. I'm sorry but erging for 10K meters is not my idea of fun and frankly I worry about overuse injury for such a (numbingly) repetitive motion. I am gradually migrating to intervals such as 5x1500m.

I haven't gotten on a SkiErg yet, but I believe that the Airex balance pad would be an excellent aid to both develop your balance and use during part of your workout to make it more interesting. Note: there are a fair number of pads that have the same shape/color as the Airex, but I have yet to use one that matches the behavior of its closed cell foam. It's an amazing life-like substance. There are a variety of exercises that one can do with this pad, and it works well as a footrest for a home office. I always use mine barefoot.

The nice stable rockerboard like FitterFirst's new board should be fun. Check out the little YouTube video on that page: this board rocks in one plane. You could use the board oriented with the rocker left-right and also fore-aft. The goal when using this kind of board is to be as relaxed as possible while maintaining your balance; I believe that the wobble boards (an board mounted on top of a hemisphere) would be too unstable to use without getting grippy on the skierg.

I'd be intrigued to try FitterFirst's weebles on a skierg. The weebles are small individual rocker boards for each foot. They're actually easier to use than a single big wobble board, and they require engaging your adductors when using. The weebles would be challenging, but I bet you could work up by using them a bit each day.

The rotating disk pair would be quite interesting, too. These are flat disks mounted on a set of bearings that allow rotation in all directions. These allow your feet to have complete freedom to rotate; you have to balance the inward- and outward-turning muscles in your leg to use them. They're used extensively in therapy, but I believe they're valuable for performance-oriented athletes to incorporate into their training.

An ideal situation would be if you had someone in your area who could lend you some of the balance toys to try on the skierg. I've asked Louis if he's tried his balance toys on this machine, but haven't heard back from him yet. I'm confident the Airex would be a great all-around toy to improve your balance. Make sure you take it very easy when incorporating any of these devices into a workout. I'd only do them for 3-4 minutes max in a workout.

Good luck and have fun. Please tell us your results if you experiment with balance devices on a skierg workout.

[mrpiii]

Thanks for the ideas. I sent the following email to Fitter First. I'll let you know what they say. I've tried a Bosu ball and it does provide some instability but it doesn't seem to provide applicable balance skills/challenges.

I have a Concept2 SkiErg. I'm looking for ways to make using it more interesting and potentially provide a better training effect. I don't know if you've ever used on but long hauls on it are deadly dull -- no different from riding a stationary bike. I'm wondering if you have any experience using any of your products with a SkiErg? As I'm sure you know balance is important xc-skiing and the balance is usually a one leg affair and side to side (not fore and aft) as you transfer weight from one ski to the other - your weight is, or should be, centered and fully over one ski at a time. Do you have a product that you think could be used with a SkiErg to help with the balance?

[floatingbones]

Sounds good. I put a similar query on their wall on FB and asked them to reply here on this forum. From their stream, I believe they're at a show in Europe right now; it may take a few days to respond. I noticed from C2's skierg locator that there are several machines in Calgary; they should have no problem finding a machine to experiment with.

In Europe, there are a bunch of companies that sell balance/prioprioception toys. The German supplier SporTec ( http://www.sport-tec.de/ ) is an amazing supplier; it's pretty neat to look through their catalog with Google Translate auto-translating their pages. Here in North America, there are far fewer sources. FitterFirst makes the greatest variety of equipment in North America by far.

I'm not a huge fan of BoSU. Most uses crank up their tension way too high when they're exercising on the dome. The game is to use as little tension as possible to achieve balance.

[carlb]

UCanRow2 publishes some multistep workouts that are enjoyable, e.g. 7 rounds of 400m with unlimited rest. After each 400m perform the following: 10 pushups, 20 situps, 30 squats, 40-second plank hold

They are on thier Facebook page and C2's. It helps to have a PM4 so you can do undefined rest. I've done 5min alternating Ski and Row and liked the mix.
http://www.facebook.com/UCanRow2

You could get a slideboard and alternate that with the SkiErg. It should help your skating, Inner/Outer thighs, ankels. I got a Goaler One and the quality is good. There are websites with DIY ones.

Mixing in some kettlebell swings could also be good.

As far as benefits of balance devices I would say ExRx is negative on them, you get better results on stable surfaces.
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Balance.html

[floatingbones]

They are on thier Facebook page and C2's. It helps to have a PM4 so you can do undefined rest. I've done 5min alternating Ski and Row and liked the mix.
http://www.facebook.com/UCanRow2

That's an excellent company page and website. I'm very happy to see someone providing training to fitness instructors on the C2, and I notice that about half of their trainings also include coverage of the SkiErg.

You could get a slideboard and alternate that with the SkiErg. It should help your skating, Inner/Outer thighs, ankels. I got a Goaler One and the quality is good. There are websites with DIY ones. Mixing in some kettlebell swings could also be good.

As far as benefits of balance devices I would say ExRx is negative on them, you get better results on stable surfaces.
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Balance.html

The first paper cited on that page says "There is little transfer between balancing skills because balance is skill specific." That would also argue against your slideboard suggestion. I'm skeptical of the claims on that page. The video on that page showing the bongo board shows terrible form: users should not be staring at their feet when balancing.

Here are several papers I found on the effectiveness of destabilization devices:

"Wobbleboard training reduces trips and falls in active over 65 years old walkers. A pilot study"
"A 4-week wobbleboard exercise programme improved muscle onset latency and perceived stability in individuals with a functionally unstable ankle"
"Can proprioception really be improved by exercises?"
""The Effect of a Balance Training Program on the Risk of Ankle Sprains in High School Athletes"

Those papers are indeed showing that balance skills (proprioception) is indeed transferrable to skills for particular sports for athletes and for everyday movement in seniors.

The whole question about effective and symmetric power by the OP is fascinating. The power analysis available on the WattBike (see http://wattbike.com/us/guide/using_the_ ... polar_view ) is very cool and a super training aid.

[carlb]

You could get a slideboard and alternate that with the SkiErg. It should help your skating, Inner/Outer thighs, ankels. I got a Goaler One and the quality is good. There are websites with DIY ones. Mixing in some kettlebell swings could also be good.

As far as benefits of balance devices I would say ExRx is negative on them, you get better results on stable surfaces.
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Balance.html

The first paper cited on that page says "There is little transfer between balancing skills because balance is skill specific." That would also argue against your slideboard suggestion.

I don't see that, a slideboard simulates the ice skating motion, it's not a balance thing. It strengthens leg, knee, ankle for that lateral motion. It is skill specific for the skate skiing. Its also cardio and gets the HR up. The OP said he had a weakness skating. Its also known as a "lateral motion trainer". I use it to warmup before weights. I like the variety it adds to my leg strength.

I'm skeptical of the claims on that page. The video on that page showing the bongo board shows terrible form: users should not be staring at their feet when balancing.

Here are several papers I found on the effectiveness of destabilization devices:
"Wobbleboard training reduces trips and falls in active over 65 years old walkers. A pilot study"
...

Those papers seem to apply to weak individuals with balance problems. IMO the ExRx page is from the POV of fit individuals adding a wobble type thing to their resistance exercise. It would probably detract from the purpose of the SkiErg, i.e. working hard at the DP motion. Part of that motion is ankle action to lift up the heels, seems like the wobble thing would change that in a bad way. It may enhance some side to side ankle strength.

The wobble thing is probably worth a try. It might add some variety to warmup, cooldown or UT2/UT3 recovery workouts. I wouldn't think it would enhance a normal/hard effort workout. I'd want to be able to return it.

[floatingbones]

As far as benefits of balance devices I would say ExRx is negative on them, you get better results on stable surfaces.http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Balance.html

The first paper cited on that page says "There is little transfer between balancing skills because balance is skill specific." That would also argue against your slideboard suggestion.

I don't see that, a slideboard simulates the ice skating motion, it's not a balance thing.[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. I used to train with a speedskating club; our dryland drills included slideboard. Slideboard training is definitely strength and balance training.

I'm skeptical of the claims on that page. The video on that page showing the bongo board shows terrible form: users should not be staring at their feet when balancing.

Here are several papers I found on the effectiveness of destabilization devices:
"Wobbleboard training reduces trips and falls in active over 65 years old walkers. A pilot study"
...

Those papers seem to apply to weak individuals with balance problems.[/quote]

Some do. Some are about athletes who wish to enhance performance: ""The Effect of a Balance Training Program on the Risk of Ankle Sprains in High School Athletes". If you search on sciencedirect.com, you will find plenty of papers about proprioceptive training for athletes.

This is hardly a revolutionary idea. We know well that the nervous system can be trained to perform better for athletes; the proprioceptive network is simply another part of our nervous system.

It would probably detract from the purpose of the SkiErg, i.e. working hard at the DP motion. Part of that motion is ankle action to lift up the heels, seems like the wobble thing would change that in a bad way. It may enhance some side to side ankle strength.

My highest recommendation is for the Airex pad. I believe that provides the proper amount of destabilization (minimal) -- essentially simulating a slightly-unstable surface that one would encounter XC skiing.

My secondary recommendation was for a rocker board -- not a wobble board. Rocker boards rock; they shift in only one dimension.

The wobble thing is probably worth a try.

I recommend the Balance Pad and a rocker board. I also recommend trying weebles: single-foot wobble boards. I think a standard wobble board wouldn't work well. Sorry for the confusion.

I wouldn't think it would enhance a normal/hard effort workout. I'd want to be able to return it.

I would borrow the balance aids from someone who owns them. Unfortunately, the weebles would probably be pretty difficult to find.

The answer is obvious: road trip to Calgary!

[Concept2MXMMA]

Many of the Mixed Martial Arts enthusiasts add either balance training or plyometrics with the SkiErg. Plyometrics will cause a higher cardiac output so it works well with intervals and forces a more explosive hip extension and quad response. When you add any type of balance component (balance pads, Balance boards, tubes ...) you give up a lot of power so keep this in mind when you are training. If you are training for increased power adding a balance component might not be what you are looking for. If it is just to break up boredom it will defiantly add something to your workout. I think I have tried them all so if you have questions feel free to contact me. (The form is sloppy but it is really hard so be careful and this is not C2 endorsed LOL. Think of it as a SkiErg “bar trick” unless you are a MMA fighter)

[Concept2MXMMA]

Here are some other things to try.

[Shawman]

One of the things that I find makes the time go by quickly is focusing on technique as it would be executed on skis. Doing it right can be very challenging, and the online videos of people using the skierg show a wide variety of approaches, but there is one that stands above the rest, I think. Take a look at 2010 Olympic cross-country skier Stefan Kuhn on the skierg on Youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSbUdSo0gt0

Kuhn starts at about 2:35 in. His arm are bent only slightly. He initiates the downward thrust from the core and lats and only engages the arm swing later. I wish his legs were visible the whole time so the timing of the knee bend was easier to follow but they do show it a bit at the beginning.

Some things to think about would be leaning forward slightly from the ankles so that if there was no resistance in the skierg cords you would fall over; getting your hands up to eye level on each arm swing; keeping your hips tilted forward as though you had just done a quick draw of a pair of revolvers from hip holsters; initiating the downward pole with the core, lats, then letting the arms follow through; pressing your hips forward as you swing your arms up so that you create a kind of momentum. On skis this momentum would carry you forward. On the skierg it might cause you to unweight or even come up off your heels a bit on the upward swing of the arms.

For me, I find that working on keeping all these elements of technique going and trying to make it flow naturally the way it so clearly does for Kuhn seems to occupy my mind pretty fully.

Failing that, the Ergdata iPhone/iPod Touch holder that attaches to a PM3/4 would let you watch or listen to just about anything, even cross-country skiing on Youtube.

Jon