'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

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jmaccyd
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'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

Post by jmaccyd » September 14th, 2019, 9:33 am

Hi, thanks for any responses. I am a 'serious' cyclist in that I race and compete at an OKish Vet level (I am 53) I have rowed a bit back in the day and have used rowing machines at the gym. My cross training over the years has been mainly doing weights either at the gym or with dumbbells at home and some running. I am from next years going to take my bike training down a notch in that I am going to come off training plans and just ride my bike and still race CX in the winter. I will be bike riding a lot and that is still my main focus but am keen to get a bit more 'all round' fit, maybe help strengthen my core (something I am terrible at doing in isolation) and rowing seems a good and time efficient way of doing that.

So, the question....how do 'serious' cyclists find fitting in rowing round their cycling and what sort of program do they do?

lindsayh
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Re: 'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

Post by lindsayh » September 15th, 2019, 1:21 am

jmaccyd wrote:
September 14th, 2019, 9:33 am
Hi, thanks for any responses. I am a 'serious' cyclist in that I race and compete at an OKish Vet level (I am 53) I have rowed a bit back in the day and have used rowing machines at the gym. My cross training over the years has been mainly doing weights either at the gym or with dumbbells at home and some running. I am from next years going to take my bike training down a notch in that I am going to come off training plans and just ride my bike and still race CX in the winter. I will be bike riding a lot and that is still my main focus but am keen to get a bit more 'all round' fit, maybe help strengthen my core (something I am terrible at doing in isolation) and rowing seems a good and time efficient way of doing that.
So, the question....how do 'serious' cyclists find fitting in rowing round their cycling and what sort of program do they do?
I'm not a cyclist at all but there has been a lot of "talk" around here as there are a lot who cross over to the erg with a bike racing background. The general consensus I think is that the 2 sports are not naturally complementary beyond general fitness. If you look at the physiques of elite riders and rowers you can see the differences. The erg however is a great way of achieving your goals of general all round fitness and core strength and will suit your competitive/measurable needs as well. Its also much safer of course. The "serious" cyclists will have something more useful to say I am sure.
Lindsay
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Sydney Australia
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

jmaccyd
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Re: 'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

Post by jmaccyd » September 15th, 2019, 2:16 am

Thanks, yes I am not really expecting any cross over to cycling fitness but was just wondering how to fit any rowing work in around cycling. I assume cyclists alternate cycling and rowing days? After a tough rowing session do cyclists out there take the bike out for an easy recovery spin after just to ease the legs back into it. Just any thoughts and tips would be appreciated. Toughing up a weakish core and general conditioning would be my rowing aims.

jamesg
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Re: 'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

Post by jamesg » September 15th, 2019, 2:55 am

Rowing is a three stage job:
Learn how it's done;
Do it long and hard at low ratings;
Do it at high ratings if you want to race.

So first thing to do is learn how. Then do it.
You can't fail to see any results there may be.
08-1940, 179cm, 83kg.

Turner100
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Re: 'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

Post by Turner100 » November 9th, 2019, 12:22 pm

jamesg wrote:
September 15th, 2019, 2:55 am
Rowing is a three stage job:
Learn how it's done;
Do it long and hard at low ratings;
Do it at high ratings if you want to race.

So first thing to do is learn how. Then do it.
You can't fail to see any results there may be.
Starting with the caveat of it’s all relative, what would you consider “long and hard at low rating” for a fit individual? At what point does diminishing returns come in?

Cyclist2
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Re: 'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

Post by Cyclist2 » November 9th, 2019, 2:20 pm

jmaccyd wrote:
September 14th, 2019, 9:33 am
So, the question....how do 'serious' cyclists find fitting in rowing round their cycling and what sort of program do they do?
I was a serious cyclist for a few years because it was inconvenient to row when I moved here. Once I got in "cycling shape" and could keep up with the peloton, I was in the best cardiovascular condition I've ever realized. My upper body lost some of the mass I had developed from rowing, but I was still strong. I always kept up the erg however, because for the time invested, it's the best overall body workout you can get. It's also real easy to hop on the erg and get in an hour. It definitely benefits my cycling, which I still do, but not competitively.

So, to answer your question from my point of view, it's easy to work it in. The program I follow is the Pete Plan, or just go with the C2 workout of the day, or program in your own (long/steady or intervals - like you do on the bike). I don't see any "diminishing returns", the erg is a perfect complement to cycling.

As mentioned, learn how to do it correctly so you get the most out of it with no injuries. Lots of threads on here with tons of good info.

Welcome, and enjoy your new (best) workout!
Mark Underwood. Rower first, cyclist too.

jamesg
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Re: 'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

Post by jamesg » November 10th, 2019, 2:59 am

what would you consider “long and hard at low rating”
Depending on age, 2 to 3W/kg at ratings 18-23. Typical could be 30 to 50 yo, 80 kg, 200W at 20, 7 to 10k. Weight based on BMI 23-25.

The now defunct Interactives for 2k racing used this type of work in the first 3-4 weeks (then called UT2 and 1), referring to HR or Watt levels, after that shortening and increasing ratings to go AT, AN, TR. This is the same as used afloat; first we get the crew working together with a decent stroke, without which training does not happen.

Skeleton Plans seen recently: https://www.britishrowing.org/indoor-ro ... ing-plans/ These specify ratings only, since again the first step is learning to row.

Diminishing returns sets in when we stop increasing the power/work level. It is to be expected that doing a certain amount of work at a certain level produces a certain result, neither more nor less.
08-1940, 179cm, 83kg.

RR
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Re: 'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

Post by RR » November 11th, 2019, 7:57 am

I have been an indoor rower since 1999 with a few years “off” between 2012 and 2017 due to work and lifestyle changes.
Have never considered myself as a serious cyclist but when I ride I enjoy it.
Over the last couple of years I have gotten back into the Erg training as well as rowing on the water. My actual bike rides this year have numbered 5!
In September I bought a BikeErg and find this has been a godsend.
I ride everyday and row just about every day.
Training wise to try and answer your question.
I almost always Row in the morning at about 9:30 after a light breakfast and a couple of stiff coffees. I then BikeErg late afternoon prior to dinner.
I alternate training as follows
Day 1 AM rower intervals PM steady cycle
Day 2 AM Rower steady PM Bike intervals
Etc
Saturday morning I Row on the water, afternoon bike intervals
I try and do a long bike ride up to 40km on a Sunday or a one hour distance trial
It’s not rocket science but it works for me
If you want a complete programme breakdown, let me know.
I will be interested to see how indoor bike training affects my rides when. I get out on the road again.
I find the BikeErg sessions are great for mental training and physically relentless as you can’t take it easy/freewheel or go downhill!
66 going on 67. One time full on erger. Now Erging and BikeErging.
LWT is the norm.
6:38.7 was a longtime ago

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Gammmmo
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Re: 'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

Post by Gammmmo » November 18th, 2019, 9:46 am

jmaccyd wrote:
September 14th, 2019, 9:33 am
keen to get a bit more 'all round' fit, maybe help strengthen my core (something I am terrible at doing in isolation) and rowing seems a good and time efficient way of doing that.
Not meaning to be flippant but if you want to strengthen your core do a specific core programme. I'm guessing that by choosing the erg you think the cardio from it will offset the reduced time you are spending on the bike, and getting core benefit too? By it's very nature you are compromising there. As an aside, the erg is a fantastic resource for time efficient (mainly) aerobic workouts but if anyone want to get better on a bike there is no substitute for just riding a bike. I suppose the type of cycling one is doing makes a difference - I see the OP includes running so he can do CX, but for road racing or time trialling frankly it's all about power:weight and aerodynamics so the last thing you want is any upper body development. Sorry.
Paul, 49M, 5'11" 83kg (sprint PBs HWT), ex biker now lifting
Deadlift=190kg, LP=1:15, 100m=15.7s, 1min=350m Image
Targets: 14s (100m), 355m+ 1min, 1:27(500m), 3:11(1K)

Erg on!

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c2jonw
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Re: 'Serious' cyclists considering cross training with rower

Post by c2jonw » November 19th, 2019, 10:48 am

I was a Cat2 road racer in the 80's and still bike when weather permits, though it's been a long time since my last race. I've used the rower for winter fitness for decades, complimenting my biking, running, ice hockey and skiing activities. Rowing is a great all around fitness exercise, utilizing most of the major muscle groups and the cardiovascular system. Certainly if you're serious about biking you should bike- a lot. But for off season fitness and cardiovascular work the rower or SkiErg are effective and efficient. Most of my workouts are steady state 30 minutes, 10 K or 60 minutes, sometimes with 15-20 stroke pickups done at regular intervals. JonW
73 year old grandpa living in Waterbury Center, Vermont, USA
Concept2 employee 1980-2018! and what a long, strange trip it's been......

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