Concept2 Forum

I used to row leading with my back, hardly even using my legs.

When you row like this, your force curve is a trapezoid, and your stroke is weak:



This stroke is about 8.6 SPI (watts per stroke).

I now lead my legs, as I should.

When you row like this, your force curve is a left-leaning haystack, and your stroke is strong.



This stroke is much stronger than the other one, 12 SPI (watts per stroke).

For me, much of learning to row well has been learning to make effective and efficient use of my legs.

The second stroke has twice the peak pressure of the first stroke (120 kgs. vs. 60 kgs.)--and almost 100 watts more power (270 watts vs. 175 watts).

17 seconds per 500m.

If your force curve looks like the first one, you need to do a lot of foundational training at low rates and high stroking powers to improve the effectiveness of your legs.

This effectiveness involves a host of things--preparation for the catch, footwork, posture, timing, sequencing, quickness, hanging on the handle, etc.

I have been doing foundational rowing at low rates and high stroking powers (and little else, except a few races, here and there) for the last six years.

ranger

ranger wrote:The second stroke has twice the peak pressure of the first stroke (120 kgs. vs. 60 kgs.)--and almost 100 watts more power (270 watts vs. 175 watts).

No sh*t. The first stroke is 2:06 pace and the second is 1:49. Pull harder, go faster

I assume you pulled a few strokes at 1:49 even when you led with your back.

In erging all that matters is that you maximize the area under the curve. Peak pressure means nothing. You can pull a very high peak and still have a very small area under the curve.

So you would have us believe that the only difference between the first screen shot and the second is the way you use your legs ...

What a tool you are.

JohnBove wrote:So you would have us believe that the only difference between the first screen shot and the second is the way you use your legs ...

Yes.

ranger

snowleopard wrote:No sh*t. The first stroke is 2:06 pace and the second is 1:49. Pull harder, go faster

No, _push_ harder--with your legs.

This is just the point.

I used to just pull (with my back and arms).

I didn't use my legs much at all.

I just dragged them along after my back and arms.

Now I push (with my legs)--and then pull (with my back and arms)--as I should.

A good rowing stroke is a very big and balanced affair--precisely timed and sequenced among the various levers.

Back in 2003, I didn't row this way at all.

I just pulled the chain--

then rushed up to the catch and pulled it again.

ranger

snowleopard wrote:I assume you pulled a few strokes at 1:49 even when you led with your back.

Nope, not at 1:49 @ 21 spm (12 SPI, etc.).

If I wanted to go faster, I raised the rate.

I did a FM at 32 spm.

I did 500s at close to 60 spm.

I would now do a 500m at 45 spm.

I would do a FM at 24-26 spm.

Back in 2003, I finished 2Ks at 40 spm.

At Baltimore in 2006, I pulled a 6:29 2K at 31 spm (without even preparing for it, just on the basis of my foundational rowing).

12 SPI

ranger

Does it take more effort to use your legs rather than not?

Sure it does.

But the question is: how much more?

Your legs are your biggest and most effective levers.

It is easier to do 1:49 @ 21 spm (12 SPI) using your legs or 1:49 @ 32 spm (8.6 SPI) not using them, just dragging them along for the ride?

The whole history of the sport weighs in for the former.

If you are rowing well, at least 50% of the power in your stroke should be generated (in proper timing and sequencing) with your legs.

You just get the work done more effectively and efficiently if you use your legs.

ranger

In a normal training cycle, these things come to a crisis very early on.

For instance, when you get to distance rowing, if you'd like to row 60min @ 1:44 is it easier for someone who usually pulls 13 SPI to lighten up on their push with the legs 1.5 SPI to 11.5 SPI and row the 60min at 27 spm?

Or is it easier for the rower who usually pulls 8.5 SPI to push 1.5 SPI harder than they are used to with their legs, at 10 SPI, and row the 60min at 30 spm?

This question is quickly answered by history.

There are lots of the former and none of the latter.

No one who usually pulls 8.5 SPI can row 17150m for 60min, no matter what they do.

If someone who pulls 8.5 SPI tries to row 17150m for 60min, they miss it (literally) by a mile--every time.

They pull about 15500m rather than 17150m.

ranger

As the Interactive Plan underlines, if you want to pull sub-6:30 for 2k, it is inevitable.

At some point, you need to do a zillion meters, 1:52 @ 22 spm (11.4 SPI), just gliding along effectively and efficiently with a UT2 (70% HRR) heart rate.

A 6:30 2K is 1:37.5 pace.

So, if this is your goal, a FM, 1:52 @ 22 spm, is the order of the day.

A FM is done in and around 2K + 14.

The 60s hwt FM WR is about 1:56 pace.

The 60s lwt FM WR is about 1:59 pace.

There's that 7 seconds per 500m again!

If you want to row 6:20 for 2K, you need to row a zillion meters 1:50 @ 22 spm.

If you want to row 6:16 for 2K, you need to row a zillion meters 1:49 @ 22 spm.

Just gliding along, as the Interactive Plan humorously puts it, "barely sweating."



Bring a picnic lunch for these mild, pleasurable, all-afternoon tours down the river.



ranger

ranger wrote:So, if this is your goal, a FM, 1:52 @ 22 spm, is the order of the day.

What is the longest workout advocated by the Interactive Plan?

snowleopard wrote:

ranger wrote:So, if this is your goal, a FM, 1:52 @ 22 spm, is the order of the day.

What is the longest workout advocated by the Interactive Plan?

90min

But that's because the plan is designed for a bunch of sissy teenagers.



Wadda they know?

They haven't even lived.

Give'em time.

They'll wise up.

Education.

Gotta love it.

ranger

Rich
Was there any real need to start yet another thread about your self?
10 replies already and 8 are yours.
Just post a meaningful screenshot with a beginning and an end point!
What is your longest non stop row at some of these distances you quote?

5K, 1:44 @ 27 spm (11.5 SPI), is right at the 60s hwt WR.

It is well below the 5K 60s lwt WR.

ranger

Steve G wrote:Rich
Was there any real need to start yet another thread about your self?

It's not just about me, Steve.

It's about using your legs when you row.

Post a screenshot of your force curve.

Let's take a look at what you do.

ranger

Steve G wrote:Just post a meaningful screenshot with a beginning and an end point!

You miss the point entirely.

What is "meaningful" in training is your force curve, not your times over a distance.

The former tells you when you are rowing well and therefore how fast you are.

The latter just tells you how slow you are and therefore how badly you row.

ranger